'Intelligent-design' school board ousted in Penn

linkPat Robertson Warns Pa. Town of DisasterVIRGINIA BEACH, Va. - Religious broadcaster Pat Robertson warned residents of a rural Pennsylvania town Thursday that disaster may strike there because they "voted God out of your city" by ousting school board members who favored teaching intelligent design.All eight Dover, Pa., school board members up for re-election were defeated Tuesday after trying to introduce "intelligent design" ” the belief that the universe is so complex that it must have been created by a higher power ” as an alternative to the theory of evolution."I'd like to say to the good citizens of Dover: If there is a disaster in your area, don't turn to God. You just rejected him from your city," Robertson said on the Christian Broadcasting Network's "700 Club."Eight families had sued the district, claiming the policy violates the constitutional separation of church and state. The federal trial concluded days before Tuesday's election, but no ruling has been issued.Later Thursday, Robertson issued a statement saying he was simply trying to point out that "our spiritual actions have consequences.""God is tolerant and loving, but we can't keep sticking our finger in his eye forever," Robertson said. "If they have future problems in Dover, I recommend they call on Charles Darwin. Maybe he can help them."Robertson made headlines this summer when he called on his daily show for the assassination of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez.In October 2003, he suggested that the State Department be blown up with a nuclear device. He has also said that feminism encourages women to "kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians."

Randman, would you want your taxpayer dollars funding a lot of radical muslim schools? What about Pagan or Satanist schools? Wicca?Do you see any issue with separation of Church and State in this scenario?...tax money being used to promote religious views?This message has been edited by schrafinator, 11-11-2005 04:39 PM

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It boils down to money.

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It also boils down to Christian conservatives wanting to get their grubby mits on public funds for their religious schools.Seriously, if there were to be an assurance that under NO circumstances would public education funds be used to fund any religious indoctrination of children, it wouldn't be such a problem in my mind....but that's not something the religious conservatives have ever conceded on or even brought up as a possibility, is it?...which leads us back to my first statement above.

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What's wrong with religious schooling? Catholic schools have done a great job over the years, often with non-Catholics, and it's not the like their graduates are the worse off for it.

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There's nothing wrong with Cathoclic schools.There is something wrong with taxpayer money being used to fund religious indoctrination.If you want to spend your own money sending your kid to a religious school, be my guest.

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If anything, religious schools can provide a more complete education because they can freely teach theology and religious history, or just be more free to discuss religion's role in history.

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Public schools are free to teach religious history. I learned all about the role of the church in AP European History in 11th grade.Public funds should not be used to fund religious indoctrination. It's unconstitutional. If you choose to send your kid to private school, then go right ahead.Just use your own money, not mine.

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It's not like people are so indoctrinated.

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Of course they are.

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Frankly, they need to hear more of the conservative religious take because most public colleges are going to do the exact opposite and they are just not getting a complete education.

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Um, I learned more about world religions in a secular high school and College than I ever did in 12 years of Catholic catechism.

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I would argue that an atheist is not educated very well if he or she does not know and understand the Bible, the major theologies and history of theological ideas that have influenced Western and American history and literature. Heck, even Hindus have their kids study the Bible to be educated about it.

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I agree. And I would say that a Christian is not educated very well if he or she does not know and understand the Deist and Humanist and Athiest predelections of our Founding Fathers and remain ignorant of the anti-religion and Freethought underpinnings of our government.

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Public schools, in the name of secularism, are really just not properly educating people about a wide area of things.

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Not in the name of secularism do we not educate about these things.The reason we do not teach about religion in public school is because people like you object to it being taught in a secular way.Can you believe the outrage among some parents if Jesus was referred to as a mythical character in World Religions class, just like Vishnu or Zeus?

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Maybe they do OK in science. I doubt it, but if you want to claim that fine, but you cannot possibly understand Western history and literature without an in-depth understanding of various biblical doctrines and Christian beliefs, specifically the various theological camps between the years 1200-1920 AD.

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Like I said, I got a decent background in the machinisations of the Papacy in a high school AP history class.

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No, I don't see an issue of violating any separation clause, and frankly it's not an issue of what I want.

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So, if you could check a box on your tax form to send some of your education tax contribution to a Satanist school, would you check it?

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A Wicca parent should be allowed to send their kids to a Wicca school,

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and they can, with their own money, not mine.

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and if there is such a school, well, it's up to the parents what school to send their kids to with the voucher money.

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It is against the Constitution for public funds to be used to promote any religion.A Satanist school would be promoting Satanism, and therefore a public-funds voucher would be using my tax money to promote Satanism to children.You are OK with this?

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The truth is the current approach is a violation, imo, because it forces the State to adopt an official ideology,

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What ideology is that?

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which was what the separation idea was trying to end. Right now, there is an official religion in the public schools, and it is secularism. By removing the state's coercion and allowing parents to decide, the State would then be truly not establishing any official religion or ideology.

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What a load of bollocks.Secularism is not a religion. It is the absence of religion, by definition.That's like saying that I follow the religion of not watching football on TV because I don't watch football on TV.Do you follow the religion of not being a Satanist, randman?

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Can you easily explain the theological differences between Arminianism, Anabaptism and Reformed theology in terms of how they affected the early American colonies and the religious and political landscape until 1800, and how those same strains contributed to the Second Great Awakening and social mores of the 19th century?

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No.But I didn't say I learned theology "so well". I said that I learned about the Bible and Christianity in AP history in high school, and a bit more in Western History in College.Your claim was that it was completely ignored in secular schools, but my own experience proved you wrong.Stop moving the goalposts again.Can you easily explain the Krebs cycle, or name the major parts and their functions of a mammalian cell, or describe the funcion of zylem and floem?It should be relatively easy if you have a basic education in Biology.This message has been edited by schrafinator, 11-11-2005 06:02 PM

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Secularism is just much a religion as Confucianism or many religions, if you ask me.

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Ah, I see you are being slippery with semantics again.Secularism is different from being secular.The US government is supposed to be secular, as are our public schools.Being secular amounts to not professing an affiliation to any particular religion or faith.That is the nature of our government and the public schools.

Now, can you please provide some evidence which shows that secularism is a religion, rather than simply an indifference to religion or the ignoring of it?

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You don't know squat about Western and American history if you cannot easily answer that question.

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Somehow, your critique of my education doesn't mean anything at all to me, randman.I suppose we can now add "American History Expert" to your titles of "Evolutionary Biology Expert", "Nature of Scientific Inquiry Expert", "World Political Affairs Expert", and " Investment and Economics Expert".My my, it's a wonder that YOU aren't in Bush's cabinet!

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We have an official, codified religion/ideology being rammed down everyone's throats to the exclusion of any other ideology/religion/belief system.

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There's a code?An official code?What is it?I suppose that you believe that secular music and secular art are all "religious" music and art?What about secular literature? Is it all really religious?This message has been edited by schrafinator, 11-11-2005 06:19 PM

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The secularists, like unto atheists, maintain they have no belief system. But that is not true. Included in their belief system is the activism to purge the identity of God from the public square and the state educational systems.

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If you could check a box on your tax form to give a portion of your education tax contribution to fund Satanist schools, would you do it?Would it be OK with you if all the schools around you became Satanist schools and actively promoted Satanism, and all of your education tax dollars went to those schools?

Can you explain to me how not being able to use my money to promote your religion to children prevents you from believing in God as you see fit?

It is against the Constitution for public funds to be used to promote any religion.A Satanist school would be promoting Satanism, and therefore a public-funds voucher would be using your tax money to promote Satanism to children.You are OK with this?

It is against the Constitution for public funds to be used to promote any religion.A Satanist school would be promoting Satanism, and therefore a public-funds voucher would be using your tax money to promote Satanism to children.You are OK with this?