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Author Topic:   Are evolution simulations accurate?
mrjeremy
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 22 (263115)
11-25-2005 5:45 PM


Is looking at inbred groups and things that are mutated by radiation a good way of simulating the way evolution would work or not? In other words, does creating a large build up of mutations suddenly yield the same result that a slow build up over time would? Why or why not?

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by crashfrog, posted 11-25-2005 6:42 PM mrjeremy has not replied
 Message 5 by Christian7, posted 11-26-2005 10:24 AM mrjeremy has replied
 Message 6 by nwr, posted 11-26-2005 10:30 AM mrjeremy has replied

  
mrjeremy
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 22 (263291)
11-26-2005 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by nwr
11-26-2005 10:30 AM


Re: Not realistic, but that's okay
Could you please explain why you think simulations are not realistic? For example, are there specific things that would occure in nature that cannot be reproduced in lab experiments. Thats what I am trying to uncover.

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 Message 6 by nwr, posted 11-26-2005 10:30 AM nwr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by nwr, posted 11-26-2005 12:34 PM mrjeremy has replied
 Message 15 by Nuggin, posted 11-26-2005 7:21 PM mrjeremy has replied

  
mrjeremy
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 22 (263314)
11-26-2005 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by U can call me Cookie
11-26-2005 5:05 AM


hmm, yeah, that seems to make sense...but at the same time we have to take note that many of the mutants do not have a leathal mutation. I don't really see a point in looking at "what might have been lost due to a leathal mutation" when there are so many other mutants to study that did not have a leathal mutation.

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 Message 4 by U can call me Cookie, posted 11-26-2005 5:05 AM U can call me Cookie has not replied

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mrjeremy
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 22 (263321)
11-26-2005 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Christian7
11-26-2005 10:24 AM


I fail to see how this addresses my question...

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 Message 5 by Christian7, posted 11-26-2005 10:24 AM Christian7 has not replied

  
mrjeremy
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 22 (263348)
11-26-2005 2:17 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by nwr
11-26-2005 12:34 PM


Re: Not realistic, but that's okay
Good point, but here is a possible rebuttal. Let me know what you think.
It is unlikely that this neutral gene when coupled with another mutation would create such a big difference as to overcome genetic drift. Unless the change causes such a big survival advantage that it survives while the rest of the community dies, both of the mutations in the combination will be subject to genetic drift (which usually maintains the status quo pretty well from what I understand).
If somewhere along the line the neutral mutation hooks up with a second mutation that it combines well with, then that second mutation still has the drift problem to deal with. In other words, assuming this "neutral" mutation is lucky enough to surive the drift, what it ends up being coupled with will also be whatever mutation happened to be lucky enough to survive the drift.
This implies that lab experiments would be accurate in simulations since in both the lab and in nature the combinations in the end result are basically random. The rate of mutaiton may be unusually high in the lab, but that just means we have more possible end combinations to look at.

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 Message 8 by nwr, posted 11-26-2005 12:34 PM nwr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by nwr, posted 11-26-2005 2:44 PM mrjeremy has replied

  
mrjeremy
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 22 (263437)
11-26-2005 11:58 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by nwr
11-26-2005 2:44 PM


Re: Not realistic, but that's okay
If I am understanding correctly you are saying that one shortcoming of lab experiments is that you cannot have as wide a variety of enviromnental conditions to test mutations in as occures naturally in the wild. Is that basically what you are saying?
Sorry but I am unfumiliar with the term IC change. What does IC stand for?
Also, you sound a little self concious about the possibility of making a mistake. I am also not a biologist. Feel free to share whatever angles you come up with, and who cares whether the ideas are dead on or not. Theorizing and then testing is what science is all about!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by nwr, posted 11-26-2005 2:44 PM nwr has replied

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mrjeremy
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 22 (263442)
11-27-2005 12:18 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Nuggin
11-26-2005 7:21 PM


Re: Not realistic, but that's okay
yes, lab simulations are not reality, but rather simulations of it, so to what extent are the accuracy of simulation results to be trusted?
Can you get into some of the ways you think that they can be used to teach us more about mutation, and any specific limitations that simulations might have?

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by crashfrog, posted 11-27-2005 1:33 PM mrjeremy has not replied
 Message 21 by Mammuthus, posted 11-28-2005 8:57 AM mrjeremy has not replied

  
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