how is it that you find that sex with children is not a violence to the child if the child is not emotionally capable of dealing with the sex act. Sex with children is rape even if the adult imagines the act to be otherwise.
Ugh, this is going to throw things way off topic. I'll make my points short. There is no evidence for such a thing as children being emotionally incapable of dealing with a sex act. They engage in it by themselves with themselves and others. Neither is something inherently violent because one engages in some activity for which a person is not fully cognizant. Children are certainly not emotionally capable of dealing with religion (as is shown by the vast numbers of people with problems associated with religion) yet taking a kid to church is not an act of violence... although now that I think about it there are usually a lot of crying children dragged in there anyway.
As for your latter statement, while it might fulfill the category of rape according to law, that does not make all instances the same as forced violent sexual activity, and indeed makes little sense given the wide variety of laws on this subject. The line of age of consent is arbitrary and does not reflect any underlying reality of inherent harm or violence. If you have an issue with that, open a thread, or consult my Rind study thread within the Coffee House (so we don't pull this thread any further off topic).
I would agree that the feeling of the adult is not nearly as important as the feeling of the child. That is borne out by studies on the subject.
Now whom are we speaking of here? Child molesterers?
When I mentioned minimum security isolated areas, I meant for people that complusively commit violent acts against others. I was referring to child rapists, but not all those who have been convicted of statuatory rape because they had sex with children.
I agree with tracking and other supervision there is less problems, but then marking is superfluous.
Really? How do you equate the branding of a criminal who commits unwanted sexual advances and/or rape on children without their informed and emotionally capable consent on the same level as bigotry of a group of people? Let us also establish here that the child molesterer/rapist is doubtless already second classed in the eyes of most of society.
Branding a group of people on the basis of unwarranted fears is bigotry against a group of people. I agree that in the increasingly sex-obsessed-vilified culture adults who have sex with children are equated with those who violently abuse children and so part of a second class. That does not mean it is real.
There is no evidence that sexual activity inherently harms children, nor that it is inherently undesired. That is merely a cultural belief. It is even trackable (like a meme). This is not to say that many or most will want it, or that most or all instances are desired and not harmful. What evidence suggests is that children do have interests in sex, engage in sexual acts, and sometimes do have sex with adults. The level of harm is generally correlated with feelings of wanting to do it (whether you think they are "ready" or not).
Here is a concrete example. There was a teacher (Laterneau?) who had sex with a young boy. He was insistent that he did want her. We jailed her and put him through all sorts of hell. Throughout that time they insisted they wanted each other and tried to see each other. Years later, when he was no longer a minor, he got legal restrictions dropped and now they are married (apparently quite happy). You suggest she needs to be stamped and monitored and kept away from all children. I think that would be unnecessary and sort of repulsive. It would be unjust.
I see a large gap between her and someone who forced a kid to do something they were uncomfortable with and felt horrible for doing. In the past gays and jews were treated to the same assumptions by societies. That pedophiles are the current class does not make the same types of assumptions valid.
They recieve little in the way of punishment co0mpared to the devestation and life-long anguish many victims of the crime suffer in regards to their sexuality and trust of others.
While certainly victims of violent rape can be devastated for long periods of time, it is usually linked to the violence involved and not the sexual content. There is also evidence that children recover from this as they do with other traumas, and that some do not view sex (without violence) as traumatic at all. Please don't take this as some sort of apologetics, I am just giving you what the state of evidence is.
I have no idea if nonrapists (those who do not engage in physically violent behavior) repeat their behavior over and over again. My guess is they might, but so did gays and masturbators when those were considered antisocial deviant activities capable of harming self and others. That's generally what minorities are, people who like to do things that others don't like. Its no suprise that they want to continue even after punishment for who they are.
I think crimes should be based on factual analysis and evidence is not supportive of equations between pedophiles and child rapists. (Before this gets further off track I'll repeat something I've had to say every time this comes up, I think there are a basis for laws restricting sex between minors and adults, just not for the reasons currently used, and some cases would be allowed),
This thread is about why we have so many in jail and persecution of sexual minorities is a nice growing population.
These people are not spending an adequate amount of time behind bars in relation to their crime.
I don't believe in treating the justice system this way. You have a valid point of view, just not one I share. I believe sentences should match the nature of the threat posed, so as to separate the compulsive violent offender from society. For those that are not compulsive, then to temporarily separate in order to direct them back into society without the issues (or with the skills) necessary to avoid further activity.
Thank you for the excellent arguements you raised holmes. I do believe you have engaged me sufficiently to have me produce the longest reply I have ever posted at this site.
Thanks and I hope my second reply did not rub you the wrong way. I am not about to try and convince you that you should like pedophiles, and indeed you can loathe them as much as overt child rapists. I will not argue against that at all. My only concern is how society uses its judicial system and so how everyone is treated by it.
In this case I do not believe that evidence supports your claims, and so I do believe the judicial system (and society) should draw a line between the two groups with regard to how they should be treated.
This message has been edited by holmes, 04-08-2006 04:11 PM
This message has been edited by holmes, 04-08-2006 04:13 PM
holmes
"Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." (Lovecraft)
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