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Author | Topic: General discussion of moderation procedures: The Consequtive Consecution Sequel | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Admin Director Posts: 13042 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
Hi Faith,
I'm looking at the immigrants thread for the first time beginning at your Message 105. I don't want to step on AdminPD's toes, but you seem to disagree with her assessment, so I thought I'd add my voice to hers and say that in my opinion you are crossing a line. You cannot equate this from EZScience in Message 101:
EZScience writes: All these protestations don't really add up to any kind of evidence that would justify all the bigoted attitudes reflected in that email you copied. To this from you in Message 105 Faith writes: You're the true bigot. If the distinction isn't apparent to you then I don't think it can be explained, but in that case you will continue to find it very difficult to remain within the Forum Guidelines. I encourage the moderator team to have little tolerance for violations of rule 10 because they tend to derail threads. So please make a greater effort to stay within the Forum Guidelines or your posting privileges will only see further restrictions.
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Admin Director Posts: 13042 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
Faith writes: I do equate it. He accused me of bigotry. I returned the compliment. No, Faith, he didn't. As I said before, I'm sorry if you don't understand the distinction, but that doesn't excuse you from following the Forum Guidelines. I'm going to remove your posting privileges in the [forum=-14] forum.
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Admin Director Posts: 13042 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
I just want to make two brief points:
Thanks!
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Admin Director Posts: 13042 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
Hi Ray,
I'm going to help you implement your personal boycott of EvC Forum by suspending your posting privileges.
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Admin Director Posts: 13042 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
Anyone with anything to say about moderation procedures? Anyone at all? That *is* the topic of this thread, after all.
Please, people, stop discussing Ray's issues here. If you have issues with any specific moderator action or with moderation procedures in general, then this is the place. Anything else, please take it to the proper thread.
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Admin Director Posts: 13042 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
Hi Charles,
CK writes: What sort of answer is that? You give a bizzare left-field reply to my question and I'm not allowed to ask what on earth you are talking about? In Message 174 AdminPD wrote this:
AdminPD writes: I've already apologized to Trixie for my lack of knowledge which prevents me from understanding how this belittles Trixie. Another admin will have to decide if action is required. Sorry. You replied in this manner in Message 175, the very next message:
CK writes: And the casual racism is beyond your scope as well? Or I take it you agree that orthodox jews treat gentiles as dogs? oh must go, I see a blackman outside and you know how they like to steal anything that's not nailed down. This is fairly offensive, especially since it appears to come from out of the blue. AdminPD tried to ignore it and disengage, but now you're hounding her. Please go back to lurking, about your only choice now that I've suspended your posting privileges. This message has been edited by Admin, Fri, 04-21-2006 08:56 AM
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Admin Director Posts: 13042 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
I've been tied up in a conference call this afternoon but was sufficiently concerned about this thread to temporarily deactivate the Suggestions and Questions forum until I had a chance to return.
This thread is for raising both specific and general concerns about moderation. Please do not use it for other purposes. Thanks!
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Admin Director Posts: 13042 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
RAZD writes: adminnemooseus writes: First of all, I'll point out (as being discussed in the "Private Administration Forum") that "relative" is apparently another incarnation of "simple", who is currently of "full suspension" status. Thus his very presence here is highly problimatic. Do you want to do a "Great Debate" with "simple"? Is there any doubt anymore? Meaning, what? That you really want a Great Debate with Simple? His threads become moderator headaches. Adminnemooseus will decide whether debate with Simple should be encouraged in this way, but I share his skepticism that you know what you're doing.
We have the same simple theory of light etc changing at some unexplained date in the past. The subject matter isn't the point. It's who you want to debate with that is the point. If you're into this kind of thing, perhaps we can set you up in a debate with John Hinckley about whether Jody Foster really loves him or not.
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Admin Director Posts: 13042 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
RAZD writes: Is there any doubt that it is 'simple'? We're pretty sure it's Simple. Keep in mind that I'm an FL according to the Ohnhai discussion style index (The Problem of Restricted Binary Logic.). If I an RBL I'd say, "We're damn sure!" If you're going into this with eyes open, and in particular if you have some discussion style/approach ideas you'd like to try out for bringing a problem poster closer to constructive discussion, then I lean toward being encouraging.
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Admin Director Posts: 13042 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
I agree the offense probably didn't merit a suspension, but Robin needs to work harder to connect with the message that board moderation is trying to send him. He posted to this thread because I posted this over at Message 208:
Admin writes: If you believe you're the victim of violations of the Forum Guidelines then please bring it to the attention of the moderators. You can post to General discussion of moderation procedures: The Consequtive Consecution Sequel, or you can email me or one of the other moderators. Please provide specific information and links to messages. Elsewhere in the same message I said this:
I've spent just a very few minutes poking around at a few of your messages and I couldn't find anything that was a example of the problem. But just above, Cavediver makes some indirect references to comments about his area of expertise, maybe they were yours, I'm not sure, and they seem the equivalent of me in a religious discussion arguing that Easter was the day Jesus saw his shadow - in other words, pretty dumb. Those who have the courage to argue about things they know little about must accept that uninformed ideas will be given short shrift. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but all opinions are not entitled to respect. In response Robin posted to this thread not about guideline violations or moderation issues, but like this in Message 225:
robinrohan writes: Those who have the courage to argue about things they know little about must accept that uninformed ideas will be given short shrift What is it that I know little about? Why did he post this? Is it because though he understands this isn't the type of post for this thread he wanted to thumb his nose at board administration? Or is he unable to distinguish between guideline violations and issues versus discussion of the criticisms he's received? Is he just so clueless that he's always going to be a moderation headache? I don't know the answer, but I tried and failed to connect with Robin. That's why I'm asking him to make a greater effort to help moderators understand his *moderation* issues. While it really isn't within the venue of board moderation to help Robin understand what he doesn't understand, if one of the moderators can help Robin get more out of his EvC experience then that would be great.
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Admin Director Posts: 13042 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
robinrohan writes: Percy closed the thread, saying that I should expect to be treated with contempt if I have the nerve to talk about something I know little about. So I wanted to know what it was I knew little about. One of the modes of behavior that can get one classified as clueless by the moderator team is to fail to get a point no matter how many times it is explained. I feel like I've already explained my point three times, and I don't feel like explaining it again, not because I don't think it's worth explaining, and not because I don't think you're a valuable member of our community, but because the evidence is that you will once again fail to get the point and that it would be a senseless exercise for me to try once again. The sense that I'm getting is that a lot of people feel this way about you, that they explain and explain and explain but that there's little to no indication from you that any of it is understood. This is something that is *your* responsibility to correct, not everyone else's. If you care about being understood then start caring about making sure you understand others. For the record, I did not say you should "expect to be treated with contempt if I have the nerve to talk about something I know little about." For the third time, I said:
Admin writes: I've spent just a very few minutes poking around at a few of your messages and I couldn't find anything that was a example of the problem. But just above, Cavediver makes some indirect references to comments about his area of expertise, maybe they were yours, I'm not sure, and they seem the equivalent of me in a religious discussion arguing that Easter was the day Jesus saw his shadow - in other words, pretty dumb. Those who have the courage to argue about things they know little about must accept that uninformed ideas will be given short shrift. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but all opinions are not entitled to respect. That's pretty circumspect. I was very careful to indicate that I hadn't read enough messages from you to reach any conclusions, and so I didn't refer to you, I spoke generally. What I was asking you to do (and here I go doing what I said I wasn't going to do, which is explain this for a fourth time) was to examine the possibility that your problems stem from jumping into discussions with ideas that are ill-informed and ill-considered while making little effort to understand the replies. By the way, I really enjoyed this, very funny:
robinrohan writes: Robin: One cannot be both an evolutionist and aChristian. Jar: What did you say? I am both an evolutionist and a Christian. I have a list of 4000 Bishops who say they believe in evolution. You are hereby refuted. Robin: What I meant was that it was logically inconsistent to-- Chiroptera: You don't understand logic! Jazzn: He shouldn't even use the word "logic." Only I and those of my superior ilk should be able to use that word. Chiroptera: Have you studied Peano arithmetic? Catholic scientist: Do you have a world class education? I do. You are despicable. Jar.: QED. You lose, Charley. Percy: What are your credentials? You have none. Robin: My credentials? Moose: Whiner! Suspended for a week! But someone with sufficient interest and talent could compose an equally funny opposing parody. This thread is for discussion of moderator issues and procedures. It is a primary goal of EvC Forum to keep discussions moving forward. If you have some requests or ideas for how better to accomplish this then please go ahead. Just keep in mind that members who make this goal difficult to achieve often run afoul of the moderators.
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Admin Director Posts: 13042 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
Hi Parasomnium,
I think we all share your concern for the well-being of someone who is a young and impressionable 14. The moderator team understands that to provide no details is to invite speculation, but I think that is best in this case. I know this is very unsatisfying, but it would be appreciated if the issue could just drop. Guido Arbia will be back on Saturday, and I'm sure we all hope that his experience here will be a positive one in his life.
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Admin Director Posts: 13042 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
Omnivorous writes: I agree, brenna. I would enjoy a PM system here. Gosh, so would I! There's something little-red-hen-ish about this, but fortunately for me having a long list of interesting programming tasks is like a chocoholic being given the keys to the chocolate factory. Unfortunately for everyone else there's only one of me. If people want features delivered sooner then I'll need help. Skill set needed is HTML, Javascript, PHP and MySQL. Perl and a little CGI familiarity is good, too.
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