Showcase Forum Issues and Requests

Don't feed the trolls? Things fall apart? Too many kooks spoil the broth?TTFN,WK

It has been 3 days, with no takers.I guess I'm willing to debate Syamsu (if approved). I would mainly debate on the nature of science and why creationism does not qualify.

Remember that he's using his own idiosyncratic definition of "creationism".

Request granted to [forum=-37] forum for purposes of participating in the Creationist theory thread.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

i'd like to say that i haven't really formed a solid opinion on this topic yet, and the effectiveness of the showcase forum remains to be seen. such is the nature of experimentation, i guess. however. i think the lesson was, primarily, that isolation of the people we deem nutjobs is bad for everyone. while this is a more voluntary forum, and people are not restricted to it, it's basically the same idea in a milder form and with a nicer name. there is a high degree of overlap between "those with exceptionally wild ideas" and "those who continually fail to abide by forum rules." so the population with likely be the same people.it sounds a lot like an effective way to limit competition -- and thus debate as well. and this is a debate board. jar words it a little more harshly, but if we put everyone that we disagree with, or everyone with ideas we think are crazy into their own little area, then we are we are showing our own bias in extreme. it's a simple fact of debate -- often one position is very, very wrong.i realize that this is not the purpose you had in mind at all. rather, i you want to promote debate by eliminating the dog-pile routine that often happens here because we have an exceptionally high ratio of evo's to creo's. but what are the rest of us to do, exactly? is the rest of the board now like a peanut gallery? because these wild ideas ARE the debate. frankly, i think it'll be a bit like releasing domesticated pets into the wild. we'll have a lot more creationists, sure -- but second they go out onto the main board, the same thing will happen. right, but is that fair? it's a debate, not a smoothy. it's meant to have problems. you can't post something to a debate board but say "i don't want debate" with people who point out why your argument is wrong.

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That some people are incapable of rational debate?That they will issue apologies but revert to type in about 4 posts?That some people due to whatever reason (mental illness in quite a few cases) are beyond help in a talk board forum?That some people's concept of reality is so far removed from the rest of us it's actually impossible for them to debate in any coherent manner and all we do is provide a venue for people to point and laugh?That what I remember learning.

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i think the lesson was, primarily, that isolation of the people we deem nutjobs is bad for everyone. while this is a more voluntary forum, and people are not restricted to it, it's basically the same idea in a milder form and with a nicer name. there is a high degree of overlap between "those with exceptionally wild ideas" and "those who continually fail to abide by forum rules." so the population with likely be the same people.

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it sounds a lot like an effective way to limit competition -- and thus debate as well. and this is a debate board. jar words it a little more harshly, but if we put everyone that we disagree with, or everyone with ideas we think are crazy into their own little area, then we are we are showing our own bias in extreme. it's a simple fact of debate -- often one position is very, very wrong.

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Let me be really blunt about this and I might violate the boards guidelines by doing so. As far as I can reason and from comment from people who know what they are on about some of the people we had in bootcamp were quite clearly mentally ill, it is therefore an impossible task to try and have some form of civil debate with such people in this type of set-up. We can call it, boot camp, showcase whatever - it's not happening.I *think* I understand what Percy is trying to do and what the underlying assumption is - that if you talk and reason with people enough they will be able to model "normal" behaviour. It's just not going to happen - it's not.

right, it doesn't solve the problem. it just creates more problems, and leads to further discrimination. but my point is far more damning and nasty than its subtle wording lets on. this is creation v. evolution. in the scientific realm, there is no such debate. one entire side here is a crazy idea. and it's easy for us to think of them as mentally handicapped -- but they think the same of us.it's frustrating to deal with some people here, i'll admit. but if you don't want to, don't. nobody has to post here, and nobody has to reply to every message.

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I'm surprised at the long memories around here. It seems that most people see "Showcase" and think "Bootcamp".The idea for "Showcase" came from John Davison's blog. Here was Davison still getting lots of attention around the net, and demonstrating a lot of blog ineptitude at the same time. I wanted to claim the attention Davison was getting with his blog for EvC Forum. The problem was how to do that, and that's how "Showcase" emerged.The primary difference between "Showcase" and "Bootcamp" is that "Showcase" is not a rehabilitation forum where members are sent to improve their debating skills so they can return to the mainstream. It is a forum to showcase those who because of a combination of their unique views and their unorthodox debating style have a hard time retaining their permissions at many discussion boards around the web. There is no intention that those showcased in this forum will at some point transition to mainstream membership status.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

oddly, i don't have an exceptionally good memory.but i'd like to point out that it's just a concern of mine, not an objection. we have yet to see how it works. the bootcamp history just makes me nervous is all. don't we have a "columnist's corner" forum? how is this different, exactly? could we maybe just expand the columnist section to include (a little) more debate? what's the essential difference, then? they would both be populated by people with poor debate technique. so it's almost like a separate board then?

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Don't forget buzsaw and likely a couple of other prominent creos on that regard.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW

I can never remember whether I have a good memory or not. Each forum is independently configurable, but since we've configured most forums here to have the same configuration, the [forum=-37] forum is sufficiently different that those who prefer to can think of it as a separate board. But there are other ways in which it is indelibly part of EvC Forum, such as the membership and the look and feel.Once dBoard 3.0 is up and running smoothly I intend to donate a board to the creationists. They can pick the domain name and configure everything and run things as they like.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

The Showcase is an interesting way to allow participation by those who cannot conform to the rules of the general forum while at the same time avoiding the resulting pile ons that such participants usually cause. It has been interesting to see some old faces showing up again. I don't think the discussions will be very productive since most of those who were banned were banned for good reasons. But it is an interesting way to let everyone who wants to participate in one form or another...seems to be successful to since there are people engaging those in the showcase via request.I am not sure why the columnist corner forum did so poorly in generating discussion. Since I was one who contributed possible reasons for its failure are having written boring articles, covering boring subjects, or having been too technical...none of the possibilities being mutually exclusive. Perhaps recruiting more people to contribute, it could become a Showcase forum for those who can follow EvC rules and generate a lively debate? i.e a Showcase Forum for the sane

That seems an excellent idea - there should be a space here somewhere where they can dicuss freely their ideas without constant distraction by us blockheads, it can even be a place where they can preach!

Now THAT is a fascinating concept. It would be completely unique on the Internet, as far as I know. Brilliant, Percy. *Q gravels at the feet of the Mighty Admin in awe.*Edited by Quetzal, : That is not a typo. [/Lion King mode]