Rejection of the Charasmatics and Biblical Literalism

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I'll answer this too. Christians certainly have direct experience of God and direct leadings from God, but some of the experiences reported by charismatics just don't hold up as from God, and cause believers much unnecessary anxiety -- the common formula for instance that the evidence of the Holy Spirit is speaking in tongues.

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But who is in the position to arbitrate which experiences are from God and which ones are produced solely from a person's own mind?You sound as though you are saying that you are, at least in the case of the "speaking in tongues" thing.

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Too many obviously excellent Christians have never spoken in tongues for it to be necessary.

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Of course it's not necessary, just like it isn't necessary for a person to give away all of their worldly posessions and wear sackcloth and ashes to be considered an "excellent Christian".But who in the position to arbitrate that it isn't a God-given experience?

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The basis for all experience is the Bible -- if the experience contradicts the Bible it's not from God. Open and shut.

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So, who is in the position to decide on the one definitive, unambiguous, crystal-clear interpretation of the Bible so that we may know exactly what it says?

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In the case of tongues it simply didn't occur after the first few centuries, and has only been revived as a supposed necessity in the last 150 or so years. There was a reason for it in the early church that no longer applies: When the gospel was a new thing it came with "signs and wonders" to verify that its source was God. After it spread and people believed by faith, such signs were no longer needed. The overall message of scripture is that we "walk by faith, not by sight," faith being superior to evidence except in extraordinary situations.

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Is this your interpretation?Are you the one who has the correct interpretation of the Bible, then?Are you the person in the position to arbitrate who's experience is from God and who's is simply a product of their minds?Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.

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It just happened to me spontaneously the same way you describe but I certainly knew what it was since I was in a charismatic church.

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So, you had what you at the time believed to be a God-given experience, but then later came to realize that it wasn't God-given at all.Hmmmm.

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It often isn't unambiguous or crystal clear. You trust those who make the best case in your judgment. That's all you can do.

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That seems reasonable.

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But there are some things that are open and shut and obvious to anyone.

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This is demonstrably not the case in practice.

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When someone who had a vision they think was from God and say they were taught something in that vision to tell the church, but what they were taught contradicts what the Bible says, you know their vision wasn't from God.

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But who has the "correct" interpretation of the Bible so that we may know if it is being contradicted or not?

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So, if this someone says the teaching was about "Twelve Steps to the Throne of Grace," which is an example from my own experience, but you know that scripture says "come boldly to the throne of grace" then you know there are no intervening steps and that teaching did not come from God.

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So, you are saying that, for that particular Biblical teaching, that you have the crystal-clear, unambiguous "correct" interpretation of the Bible?

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No, this is an interpretation I have gleaned from many different sources discussing this subject.

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But are you saying that you and all those who agree with you have the correct interpretation and all those who disagree with you and have a different interpretation are wrong?You and those who agree with you are in the position to judge, in this case, what is from God and what isn't?

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Why do you think there is only one person?

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I don't think that there is only one person, necessarily.

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I wouldn't be saying what I'm saying if I didn't think it true, but I *already* told you and am telling you *again* that I don't give my own opinion on these things, but what I've learned from many teachings on the subject by many different teachers.

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So which of them have the correct interpretation of the Bible so that we may know what is Biblical and what is not?

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That many people just can't be good at making up sound patterns.

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Humans as a species are incredibly focused upon language. We are all good at making up sound patterns.Anyone listening to an infant babbling away to themselves, seemingly speaking their own language, complete with inflection and fluent expression, can't help but agree.

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You have heard ancient aramaic being spoken where that would allow you to state this claim?

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[smartass]Probably at the same place his buddies got their amalgam fillings "miracled" into gold ones.[/smartass]