Is Science a Religion?

And you have a high degree of faith in that answer? You are ignoring the body of evidence..."The depravity of man, is at once... the most emperically verifiable reality. yet at the same time, is the most intellectually resisted fact!" (Malcomb Muggeridge)How many times do I have to tell you that?2 Corinthians 4:4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Wrong!You've bought into the lie... that there is a difference between theory and faith. They are the same thing.They both have the root word, 'Theo' which pertains to reality (or God) as Anastasia so aptly showed to Crash in an earlier post.Paul Davies, theoretical physicist / Australian Centre for Astrobiology: You're just plain worng Ringo, and it is because you are blinded by your own ambitions.Repent!

"The depravity of man, is at once... the most emperically verifiable reality. yet at the same time, is the most intellectually resisted fact!" (Malcomb Muggeridge)It is not jabberwockey jar. Sin and death and murder and theft and adultery and depravity and haterd and violence are realities.I guess science has nothing to say about them other than offer a technique to change them. We'll just genetically engineer ourselves out of such behavior, or exterminate those who practice them?Except homosexuals of course...

Ringo: Wrong!You've bought into the lie... that there is a difference between theory and faith. They are the same thing.They both have the root word, 'Theo' which pertains to reality (or God) as Anastasia so aptly showed to Crash in an earlier post.Paul Davies, theoretical physicist / Australian Centre for Astrobiology: You're just plain wrong Ringo (and jar), and it is because you are blinded by your own ambitions.Repent!

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Matthew 10:26 "So do not be afraid of them. There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known.

Nope... theory is no different than theology. They are 'theo'.And the 'theo' of faith explains more of reality than the 'theo' of science, which is limited to only material causes.If you combine them, then both begin to make sense. you have isolated parts of reality from each other so as not to confront the whole (holy) element of life.And that is why sin = death.

jar:I can't even believe I used to let you get under my skin...

You're muddled Ringo... they both have a position on the matter... And the matter is God!Athiesm is not agnoticism. Slow down Ringo... The only differnce is that theology extrapolates more data. Science theory extrapolates a limited view of reality. It is the more closed of the two systems.Open your mind. The Bible says, 'Be transformed by the renewing of your mind'.You've got it backwards...Just because they have a difference does not equate to a total difference. I do Ringo... So science thorizes on half the picture, and you think that is more informative for practical purposes of your moral and political agenda than your theological counterparts who theorize on the moral side of the equation?Why would you ignore the moral side of the equation and use only science to guide you to whole (holy) answers?Could it be that you do not want the answers provided by Christ?If you keep reality wrapped up in a neat little bundle called "the box of science", then you can only pretend that you have knowledge? And you even admit it is limited intentionally. Amazing!That is now impossible to do honestly, with modern science uncovering the complexities of life, and the interconnectedness and overlapping complexity of the cosmos in regard to it.'Darwins black box' is open Ringo. It's no longer the panacea it used to be. There is nothing to fear...As Phillip Johnson has said, 'The train is already moving in the other direction.'The cat is out of the bag...Ringo, why don't you use both sides of the equation to come to a complete understanding of reality?You are complete in Him... because He is light (logic and reason) itself. Don't eat only part of Him. Don't just have the flesh... drink the blood too!Colossians 2:8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.

Ringo:The ToE for example has not been verified, it is extrapolated. And as such is called a theory.The doctrine of sin on the other hand, is the easiest thing in the world to provide evidence for. It is not only verified, but history repeating itself over and over again.Evidence from on a global scale, down to a village scale.Ringo:True! One actually has evidence, and the other is imaginative extrapolation of partial facts.Ringo:You are now moderating your position?Ringo:That's just rediculous on it's face! A muddying of the waters on your part; intentional deception.Theory and theology share the same extrapolating qualities. They are both faith. Science is sold as only dealing with facts, it's the theory where it moves beyond fact and into faith.Again I give you the Davies quote...Paul Davies, theoretical physicist / Australian Centre for Astrobiology: Ringo:And the fact that you don't is very telling. But you exposed yourself in another thread, and that is why I mentioned it.In this message: http://EvC Forum: Discrimination against homosexuals carried into the 21st century -->EvC Forum: Discrimination against homosexuals carried into the 21st century you said, in response to my mentioning the danger of polluting the blood supply with aids: And in the same mesage, you said:Have you no conscious Ringo? I suppose you don't believe in such things because science cannot verify them.But revealing discussions like this can verify much in the way of conscious and honesty (which science also cannot verify). Statistics can be manipulated in all manner of ways that leave no one with the ability to prove dishonesty. Such is the way of this sick game...Ringo:"The most emperically verifiable reality is the depravity of man. Yet at the same time, it is the most intellectually resisted fact." (Malcomb Muggeridge)Sounds to me like science misses out on a lot, by being hi-jacked by those who only intend to use it for their own agendas. You just admitted that you don't seek whole answers... you seek half truths to satisfy your appetite for sin without a conscious to convict you. That is blasphemy of the Spirit. It's an attitude... It is intentionally silencing your conscious. If you kill it (sounds like it might be too late) you'll be nothing but a machine driven by instincts and emotions (another head of the beast).'Whole' answers are not inane Ringo... they are pivotal to wisdom. I only through in the (holy) to remind you where the root of the word comes from. You are meant to be a whole creature. With a functioning mind, soul, and spirit. If you are unholy, it is because you are out of balance. If you kill one of the three, you've damned yourself.

Ringo:No, I said that...You said science is the only thing verifiable.This is what I said:"The depravity of man, is at once, the most emperically verifiable reality. Yet, at the same time, it is the most intellectually resisted fact." (Malcomb Muggeridge)Neither one of us has a reading problem. You just have an honesty problem.

Ringo:If you say so...Phillip Johnson - author ”Darwin on trial’ / Professor of law (emeritus) University of California at Berkeley- Dean Kenyon - coauthor of textbook on theory of biochemical evolution ”biochemical predestination’ 1969 / professor of biology (emeritus) San Fransisco State university-

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Describing the complexity of a living cell- Stephen C. Meyer -philosopher of science, Discovery institute-

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Answering the question - ”Why can’t biological information originate through a materialistic process’? Phillip Johnson on the question: What is information?’ (4 of 12 quotes from the Q&A section in the bonus material available on the DVD documentary, 'Unlocking the Mystery of Life')If you like the quotes... you gotta hear what's on the documentary!If you don't like them... then get a life!

Why not?Jesus was... why do you think they killed Him?Rebel with confidence and love of life and no fear of death.

You twisted my own words... Now you can deal with 'real' scientists like Kenyon.Tell him science is not a religion. He was one of the priests at one time. But he saw the error of his ways.Tell him he is not imaginative enough (That he can't extrapolate the data to mean what you want it to mean). His theories are too emperical, and not creative enough. That he's oversimplifying and that it's not fair, because it doesn't give you the ability to confuse the issues with sohist rhetoric and detailed minutia. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. If he doesn't find it himself, he's too proud to accept what's free!Absolutely mind boggling! Oh great abyss, how you swirl and threaten. Oh mighty queen of the deep, how you mystify and delude.

That is precisely the problem. Evolution telss us how life became complex by slow processes. Now your telling me that we begin with the most complex molecule in the known universe?That is precisely why Dean kenyon changed his mind about evolution. I'll be providing that whole argument soon enough. it's worth a whole topic.And I can see I'm being deluged now. Reply after reply... The prophets of suspiscion have mobilized! Life is not a mutation Subbie. If it is, then why not eliminate the weaker for the sake of the stronger?Why save aids patients? their a drain on the organism of mankind. Let them die!I don't believe that... but the logical outworkings of your beliefs do. You've got a problem with science cohering with our moral realities under your worldview.A good worldview would have the two in complete harmony. Unless of course you don't belive in an absolute morality reality, which is again why you should consider eliminating the weaker as did your social darwinist and naturalist predecessors.Evolution is not absolute Subbie, information is!

Been there done that Ringo... You have your mind absolutely set to believe one thing. There is nothing more I can say to you...

there is no such thing as nothing Subbie.I'm not starting all over with you... You'll have to go back and read the thread. I have no doubt you and Ringo will be very happy together. I'm not honlding my breath for a breakthrough. You can belive what ever you want.Just don't forget to ask yourself 'why' you 'want' to belive what you do. When I did that, I left evolutionary theory behind. Because I only believed it because my culture taught it to me (just as Johnson explained), and it gave me an excuse to live for me.It's an old religion now Subbie, been part of the doctrine and establishment for decades. A real pressure cooker. And if you question the authorities, you'll be ridiculed as your comment shows.Scorn away Subbie, I ain't changing my tune. I could care less if I can convince you. God himself couldn't change your mind. you won't let Him!