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Author | Topic: Is Science a Religion? | |||||||||||||||||||
Doddy Member (Idle past 5939 days) Posts: 563 From: Brisbane, Australia Joined: |
Though our prophets are far more accurate, our healers are far more effective, and explanations for phenomena far more satisfying and far less contradictory, there is no faith/unfounded beliefs nor worship nor prayer in science. Thus, science is not a faith system, so not a religion.
Open Mind writes: ... must exclude a supernatural creator from any of its components. I think what you have there is metaphysical naturalism, not science (which is based on methodological naturalism). Edited by Doddy Curumehtar, : added part on naturalism "Der Mensch kann was er will; er kann aber nicht wollen was er will." (Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills.) - Arthur Schopenhauer
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Doddy Member (Idle past 5939 days) Posts: 563 From: Brisbane, Australia Joined: |
I read this interesting essay a week or two ago, and I think a few people here would be interested too: Naturalism is an Essential Part of Science and Critical Inquiry. I just wanted to quote one passage:
quote: Edited by Doddy Curumehtar, : Fixed link "Der Mensch kann was er will; er kann aber nicht wollen was er will." (Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills.) - Arthur Schopenhauer
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Doddy Member (Idle past 5939 days) Posts: 563 From: Brisbane, Australia Joined: |
quote: There is a sharp distinction between methodological naturalism (the principle that science cannot investigate the supernatural, so must assume they don't exist for the purposes of the scientific method) and ontological naturalism (the principle that the supernatural cannot and does not exist). Science does not, as Johnson claims, "say that ultimately all that is real is nature". This is not a testable hypothesis, and as such is unscientific. "Der Mensch kann was er will; er kann aber nicht wollen was er will." (Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills.) - Arthur Schopenhauer
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Doddy Member (Idle past 5939 days) Posts: 563 From: Brisbane, Australia Joined: |
subbie writes: In the second situation, what Johnson et. al. call "new information" has been added. No laws of thermodynamics have been violated. There was no author. It was simply an error in copying, a mutation. Regardless of whether mutations can or can't add information, selection does add information. After all, information is an exclusion of certain possible states. A letter 'x' can also be said as 'not other letters but x', so when I press the X key, I am excluding the other possible states in order to transfer the information of X into the computer. So, when something is selected for by natural selection, information from the environment is added to the genome. It really doesn't matter if mutations can or can't add information. Anyway, this is getting off topic....back to science being a religion or not. Don't respond to me...unless you want to anger a mod! "Der Mensch kann was er will; er kann aber nicht wollen was er will." (Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills.) - Arthur Schopenhauer
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Doddy Member (Idle past 5939 days) Posts: 563 From: Brisbane, Australia Joined: |
Rob writes: Evolution is not absolute Subbie, information is! And yet, these symbols that we are writing in, and the laws of our grammar, would be incomprehensible to a Chinese farmer. If I convert it to binary, and show it to the average person on the street, they will not understand it either. Regardless of how absolute the information is, there is no absolute way to get your information from one person to another, but only relative ways. "Der Mensch kann was er will; er kann aber nicht wollen was er will." (Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills.) - Arthur Schopenhauer
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Doddy Member (Idle past 5939 days) Posts: 563 From: Brisbane, Australia Joined: |
And how does that compare with the binary complexities of our computer operating software? It's more than twice! You do the math... Binary is the simplest way of transmitting information. So, a genetic code of A, C, G and T is twice as complex as the most simple method. So the math: 2 x simple ≠ most or very complex "Der Mensch kann was er will; er kann aber nicht wollen was er will." (Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills.) - Arthur Schopenhauer
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Doddy Member (Idle past 5939 days) Posts: 563 From: Brisbane, Australia Joined: |
Rob writes: If what you said is true, then why do politicians and dictators rule and threaten the world at the expense of 'the little village people' in flyover country who are down to earth and live much more harmoniously? There is an entire forum section for this sort of discussion. We even have like three threads current on the evolution of empathy and morals. Post this in one of those. But, the answer to your question is: because they can. There is room in society for a small minority of selfish people who live off the good will of others. Social parasites if you will. But, too many of these people and they will destroy one another, and society will cease to function well. Edited by Doddy Curumehtar, : Provided answer to the question. "Der Mensch kann was er will; er kann aber nicht wollen was er will." (Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills.) - Arthur Schopenhauer
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Doddy Member (Idle past 5939 days) Posts: 563 From: Brisbane, Australia Joined: |
Open Mind writes: If science is purely factual based, why do scientist search for a TOE when there is no facts that support a TOE? There are indeed facts to support this. For example, in the 17th century, electricity and magnetism were seen to be separate forces at work, but by the 19th, due in part to Maxwell, they were unified as electromagnetism. This left four forces: electromagnetism, gravity, weak nuclear force and strong nuclear force. In the 60s, electromagnetism and the weak nuclear force were proven to be the same force: called the electroweak force. That left three forces: electroweak interaction, gravity and the strong nuclear force. Since the 70s, using the theories of Quantum Chromodynamics, there have been many hypotheses as to how the strong nuclear force and electroweak force may be unified, but they have so many 'fudge factors' (as my professor calls them. 'Constants' is the real name), that they might not be the full answer. But it certainly shows that with extrapolations from what have already happened in physics, the idea of a Grand Unified Theory has some merit. "Der Mensch kann was er will; er kann aber nicht wollen was er will." (Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills.) - Arthur Schopenhauer
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Doddy Member (Idle past 5939 days) Posts: 563 From: Brisbane, Australia Joined: |
Furthermore, scientists "believed" in unity before it "Worked". Why did the first scientists believe in unity? Where did they get this concept? To be honest, I'd say they got it from Christian and Islamic religions. Most scientists of the middle ages were looking for order and patterns left by God for them to discover. They looked for patterns in the Bible/Qu'ran and looked for similar order in the universe, because they both had the same designer in their eyes. However, the scientific method proved to be a useful strategy, so subsequent scientists believe it based on its success, not by faith. Somehow, I'm sure they would have lucked into that method sooner or later without religion, but we'll never really know that. Edited by Doddy, : No reason given. "Der Mensch kann was er will; er kann aber nicht wollen was er will." (Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills.) - Arthur Schopenhauer
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Doddy Member (Idle past 5939 days) Posts: 563 From: Brisbane, Australia Joined: |
Who says morals are the domain of religion anyway?
"Der Mensch kann was er will; er kann aber nicht wollen was er will." (Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills.) - Arthur Schopenhauer
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