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Author Topic:   The Blasphemy Challenge
Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3628 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 124 of 134 (383769)
02-09-2007 3:51 AM
Reply to: Message 123 by anastasia
02-08-2007 10:04 PM


Fact & Reality
anastasia:
It is however a science, and we still have a choice about whether or not we will incorporate our findings into a philosophy.
Why wouldn't factual discoveries be incorporated into one's belief system as a matter of course?
A valid philosophy accommodates new discoveries.
Science is facts, and the fact is, that our minds should not take refuge in facts unless they cohere with our reality.
How is it that a fact can fail to cohere with reality?
How does one distinguish facts that are real from facts that are not real?
From what threat do facts offer our minds a refuge?
__
Edited by Archer Opterix, : HTML.

Archer
All species are transitional.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by anastasia, posted 02-08-2007 10:04 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by anastasia, posted 02-09-2007 10:37 AM Archer Opteryx has not replied
 Message 127 by anastasia, posted 02-09-2007 10:56 AM Archer Opteryx has replied

  
Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3628 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 128 of 134 (383841)
02-09-2007 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 127 by anastasia
02-09-2007 10:56 AM


Re: Fact & Reality
anastasia:
Ah, I think you edited while I was replying...
Yes, sorry. Your choice of words got curiouser and curiouser as I looked.
On one hand you don't seem to mean a disconnection between 'facts' and 'reality' at all. You seem to mean filtering personally useful facts from those facts that just become part of our common store of knowledge. You decide the ultimate worth of a fact not by its reality--facts are true by definition--but by utilitarian value.
If so, I'd say that's something everybody does regardless of their personal philosophy. It doesn't lessen the instrinic value of facts, though. They show us reality. Usefulness just brings a practical dimension into it. Which sciences can one apply?
On the other hand, your most recent explanation suggests that by 'facts' you mean the discoveries of science and by 'reality' you mean Catholic teachings. You set these against each other. It seems you really do filter facts you will accept as 'real' based on the comfort of their fit with church doctrines.
If that's the case, the 'refuge' facts offer 'our minds' would be from the unwanted teachings of clerics.
___
Edited by Archer Opterix, : typo repair.
Edited by Archer Opterix, : another typo. Grrrr!

Archer
All species are transitional.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by anastasia, posted 02-09-2007 10:56 AM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by anastasia, posted 02-09-2007 11:42 AM Archer Opteryx has replied

  
Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3628 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 130 of 134 (383849)
02-09-2007 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 129 by anastasia
02-09-2007 11:27 AM


Beauty is reality, and goodness is beauty.
The Good, the True, and the Beautiful. The Classical Triad.
You are a friend of Plato's.
___

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by anastasia, posted 02-09-2007 11:27 AM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by anastasia, posted 02-09-2007 12:05 PM Archer Opteryx has not replied

  
Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3628 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 133 of 134 (384187)
02-10-2007 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by anastasia
02-09-2007 11:42 AM


Plato vs Aristotle
Sounds to me like your personal monitor is set to a split-screen view.
On one side is Platonic thinking: start with big things and work down to particulars.
On the other side is Aristotelian thinking: start with particulars and work up to the big things.
On the Platonic side you have ideals like the Good, the True, and the Beautiful. God is the ultimate Ideal. From these ideals you work your way down.
On the Aristotelian side you have all bits of data that come your way, including the findings of science. From these particulars you work your way up.
The view on one side informs and corrects the view on the other, you say. Your ongoing task is to feather and eventually eliminate any line dividing the two views.
Is that a fair representation of the situation?
You're aware, I know, that Aristotle's approach won out over Plato's in the Renaissance. The scientific method is Aristotle's baby. Those who work in the sciences excel at this way of thinking, as you see, and many are content to keep the Aristotelian landscape on their monitors full-screen.
___
Edited by Archer Opterix, : typo repair.

Archer
All species are transitional.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by anastasia, posted 02-09-2007 11:42 AM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by anastasia, posted 02-10-2007 4:25 PM Archer Opteryx has not replied

  
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