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Author Topic:   God as Artist
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 32 (426061)
10-04-2007 10:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by RAZD
04-01-2007 3:32 PM


God: To intervene or not to intervene? That is the question
The whole paradigm of god as a designer = grand engineer is fraught with problems, not least of which are designs of questionable (to be polite) value.
I suggest an alternative concept: God as Artist.
The artist is not held to the same standard for things to work - their standards are otherwise: sometimes to entertain, sometimes to amuse, sometimes to educate, sometimes to just make people smile with appreciation.
Well, I see God as an artist too, but I think it presents a problem for you. Since art is a deliberate act, then all the atrocities associated in the world is not allowed for the reign of free will to flourish, but for the "amusement" of God.
Secondly, any involvement of God, whether for amusement, education, or entertainment nullifies every premise of evolution going through unguided processes. Where then would God actually factor in?

"It is better to shun the bait, than struggle in the snare." -Ravi Zacharias

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by RAZD, posted 04-01-2007 3:32 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by RAZD, posted 10-11-2007 5:47 PM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 23 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-11-2007 7:47 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 26 of 32 (427761)
10-12-2007 7:19 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by RAZD
10-11-2007 5:47 PM


Re: NJ fails at logic again
quote:
Since art is a deliberate act
You are no artist. This is not a true statement. Look up "happy accident" in Japanese art.
Do you rest your case upon Happy Art? Its fairly simple concept: You pick up a brush, dab it in paint, smear the paint on to the canvas in such a way that corresponds to the mental image in your mind... Art.
You can't say art isn't deliberate. You didn't arbitrarily fall in to some paint and magically produced artwork. Its intentional. At the most, something may come out in a way that you didn't entirely hope for, but the main point is, you were there trying to create something.
False conclusion, even without the false precept. You are missing a(n assumed) premise.
How so?
quote:
but I think it presents a problem for you.
And we see, again, that your logic is inadequate to make this claim.
And we see, again, your inability of explaining why its inadequate. If my "logic fails," you have to present reasons why. That's generally how rebuttals work.
quote:
Secondly, any involvement of God, whether for amusement, education, or entertainment nullifies every premise of evolution going through unguided processes.
Just because you want to make this conclusion does not mean it follows from your argument. It doesn't.
It very, very simple RAZD... If God set anything in motion for some purpose, be it for entertainment, musings, education, or whatever, there is a clear desire for a resulting action that follows-- which will invariably factor out unguided processes altogether. Think about that deeply for a moment.
Please tell me how a mobile operates solely by guided processes.
A mobile?
your god is supposed to be a hands on in every life control freak who is omniscient and all powerful, fully aware of and able to control consequences, so your arguments apply more to your belief than to mine.
If my God were a control freak, you'd be on your face right now worshiping Him. My God is no such thing.

"It is better to shun the bait, than struggle in the snare." -Ravi Zacharias

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by RAZD, posted 10-11-2007 5:47 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by RAZD, posted 10-12-2007 8:23 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 28 by Discreet Label, posted 10-12-2007 10:18 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 29 of 32 (427794)
10-13-2007 12:11 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Discreet Label
10-12-2007 10:18 PM


Re: NJ fails at logic again
I must ask, why does it seem 'art' the canvas forms like to utilize real conceptions for example, say a tree on a hill? Must art be actually drawn to be art? Can not art be the bare tree on the hill that isn't drawn, but the actual place?
Art comes from an artist. I wonder if you'd be willing to extrapolate such magnificence one step further to deduce that design comes from a Designer.

"It is better to shun the bait, than struggle in the snare." -Ravi Zacharias

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Discreet Label, posted 10-12-2007 10:18 PM Discreet Label has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Discreet Label, posted 10-13-2007 11:23 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
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