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Author Topic:   Evolutionary Explanation for Morality
bodacity
Junior Member (Idle past 5508 days)
Posts: 6
Joined: 11-24-2007


Message 1 of 22 (436657)
11-27-2007 12:49 AM


Hi, I am new here. I am unclear as to exactly how evolution explains morality. My understanding is that if a group of organisms develops a moral trait, they will be more likely to survive than a group of organisms without the trait because of the positive effects it will have on the group. Is this more or less correct? I would appreciate either direct answers, or links pointing me to discussions that answer this question.

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by dwise1, posted 11-27-2007 10:52 AM bodacity has not replied
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bodacity
Junior Member (Idle past 5508 days)
Posts: 6
Joined: 11-24-2007


Message 5 of 22 (436691)
11-27-2007 7:09 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Larni
11-27-2007 3:52 AM


Thanks for the reply; that mostly makes sense. However, the second link raises a question it does not answer: how does evolution explain altruism that's not reciprocated? Also, it gives reasons for why men rape, but does not address why it is considered immoral to rape. Are there further explanations for these issues?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Larni, posted 11-27-2007 3:52 AM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by PaulK, posted 11-27-2007 7:50 AM bodacity has not replied
 Message 8 by Larni, posted 11-27-2007 8:48 AM bodacity has not replied
 Message 9 by Chiroptera, posted 11-27-2007 9:33 AM bodacity has replied
 Message 16 by Modulous, posted 11-27-2007 5:14 PM bodacity has not replied

  
bodacity
Junior Member (Idle past 5508 days)
Posts: 6
Joined: 11-24-2007


Message 11 of 22 (436727)
11-27-2007 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Chiroptera
11-27-2007 9:33 AM


Chiroptera, could you explain what you meant?
Chiroptera writes:
Actually, I think the opposite. It gives the reason why we consider it immoral to rape, but doesn't give reasons why some men do rape.
In the linked article I was referring to, there was a section entitled "Why Men Rape." It mentioned two hypotheses to why men developed the tendency to rape:
1. rape was favoured by natural selection because it increased mens' reproductive success
2. rape is a by-product for obtaining multiple mates without commitment
However, it did not provide an explanation for why it is considered immoral to rape.
But assuming uncompensated altruism and disdain for rape can be explained by evolutionary motivations, how would they (or any moral traits) be promulgated in practice? As far as I can understand, survival of the fittest only applies to individuals; particular traits would not be selected for unless they provided immediate survival advantages. It seems to me that the benefits of morality would be too long term, and morality traits would never prevail.

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 Message 9 by Chiroptera, posted 11-27-2007 9:33 AM Chiroptera has replied

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 Message 13 by Chiroptera, posted 11-27-2007 12:20 PM bodacity has not replied

  
bodacity
Junior Member (Idle past 5508 days)
Posts: 6
Joined: 11-24-2007


Message 18 of 22 (436885)
11-27-2007 10:17 PM


Chiroptera writes:
Did it mention the hypothesis that rape is a product of the education and upbringing of the individual and has nothing to do with hereditary factors, and so has nothing to do with natural selection?
Ok, but don't animals (like ducks and dolphins) rape?
Chiroptera writes:
In the case of altruism (and presumably the ability toward morality and empathy in humans), the individuals in a group that has an innate drive toward cooperation can flourish as compared to a population where each individual acts only in its immediate self-interest. And when cooperation is coupled with an ability to detect "slackers" and "cheaters" and a drive to retaliate against them, egoists would be at a disadvantage in such a group of cooperators.
So this is the part I'm really wondering about. I have a feeling I'm completely ignorant. But how do a bunch of individuals in a group develop an innate drive toward cooperation? And how would the ability to detect "slackers" and "cheaters" develop, especially simultaneously?
Anyway, I am not talking about cooperation. Cooperation is completely different from unreciprocated altruism, although it could be classified as a form of reciprocated altruism ("you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours"). There is also a large discrepancy between true unreciprocated altruism and the "niceness" defined by Modulous as "not betraying". Unreciprocated altruism refers to a selfless concern for the welfare of others, or acts of kindness with nothing expected in return - a very real phenomenon within the human race. It is impossible to explain away all cases of seemingly unreciprocated altruism as selfish.

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Chiroptera, posted 11-27-2007 11:16 PM bodacity has not replied
 Message 20 by bluegenes, posted 11-28-2007 1:13 PM bodacity has not replied

  
bodacity
Junior Member (Idle past 5508 days)
Posts: 6
Joined: 11-24-2007


Message 22 of 22 (504460)
03-28-2009 6:40 PM


Could you give Cedre's topic a chance? All they were saying is that, at least on the surface, "unbeneficial humanitarianism" is hard to explain, which is why scientists have researched it.

  
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