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Author Topic:   Evolutionary Explanation for Morality
Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 3 of 22 (436676)
11-27-2007 3:52 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminPhat
11-27-2007 3:03 AM


Yeah, that's basically correct but you need to be thinking in behavioural evolutionary terms: that is to say that a behaviour appeared are increased the survival chance of the group.
Before I go on I will define moral behaviour as socially cohesive behaviour; the xian bible is full of immoral behaviour that was at the time socially cohesive so I want you to know the definitions I will use.
You can see this happening in many species where there is a close genetic relationship (such as ants, bees, naked mole rats etc).
This sometimes gets called kin selection. As you can imagine, the behaviours in non human animals is prehaps not not moral behaviour as such, but recognition of 'morals' in humans could be argued to be our rationalisation of said drive.
But, on the other hand people we are familiar with are more predictable (because we have a greater knowledge of their likely behaviour) and this makes us feel less anxious. less anxiety means more cognitive resources devoted to behaviour geared not simply towards survival but geared towards improving ones lot or the tribe, nation, department, office etc).
A recognition of the required behaviour to achieve this state is most likely learnt during childhood and the actions of such hard wired devices such as mirror cells (which are implicated in empathy) practically dictate moral behaviour at a certain cultural level.
ABE: Welcome to the fray, I hope you enjoy it here
This is a good primer
Evolutionary Psychology: A Primer
Take a look here, too. It's a good read and is not too heavey going.
Evolution of Behavior
Can anyone tell me how to shorten links?
Edited by Larni, : No reason given.
Edited by Larni, : No reason given.
Edited by Larni, : No reason given.
Edited by AdminPD, : Adjust Links

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by AdminPhat, posted 11-27-2007 3:03 AM AdminPhat has not replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 5 by bodacity, posted 11-27-2007 7:09 AM Larni has replied

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 7 of 22 (436705)
11-27-2007 8:20 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by AdminPD
11-27-2007 6:25 AM


Many thanks!

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Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 8 of 22 (436707)
11-27-2007 8:48 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by bodacity
11-27-2007 7:09 AM


bodacity writes:
how does evolution explain altruism that's not reciprocated?
Another way to look at altruism is to think of the pure survival advantage given to ones genes if you help enough of ones relatives (who share the simliar genes-this is an obvious over simplification) reproduce. The familial genes get propergated through time.
Think again of ants. All drones are sisters and share 50% of each others genes. If a soldier ant dies defending 10 grubs she has aided the survival the gene pool. This is called 'inclusive fitness'.
Now, we humans are very clever and generalise this to not just our family but to anyone in an 'in group'. This increase the likelyhood of people surviving in our in group.
This is where it fits in with Pauls explantion of groups.
In a way all altruism is rewarded with a pay off. Behaviour is always driven by aversion or attraction of possible outcomes.
So every time you think something is altruistic you should ask yourself: what drives this behaviour?
The only truly altruistic behaviour I can come close to imagining is giving money to a charity that you hate. But, even then one would prolly be doing it just to prove you where altruistic.
Our evolution to our current state pretty much requires altruism for co operation. Morality can be seen in terms of a particular take on what ones culture conciders altruistic.
In WWII for some pilots, flying a plane into a battleship could have been concidered an altruistic act, from a certain point of view. as Paul said rape is genetically selfish, flying a plane into a battleship that could soon be shelling your nation (in group) is pretty damn genetically selfless.
Edited by Larni, : No reason given.

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Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 14 of 22 (436771)
11-27-2007 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by RAZD
11-27-2007 12:14 PM


I like the idea of horse and tiger morality.
I like even better the way it clearly highlights that you would only think horse morality was right if you were a horse.
Kind of puts the royal screw job on the idea that morality is abosolute; as said morality is derived from the adaptive environment the organism evolved in (and the current cultural trends in the case of humans).

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Replies to this message:
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