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Author Topic:   Is there any reason that the US government should be trusted?
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 10 of 25 (439555)
12-09-2007 2:29 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Hyroglyphx
12-09-2007 1:20 AM


Re: The whole government?
Why not an overthrow of the government?
What do you think we do every other November?
If certain members of the CIA were destroying evidence, then let the US government prosecute them on that basis.
"There's no such thing as the mafia. If certain members of the Cosa Nostra were murdering, stealing, extorting, or bribing public officials, then let them be prosecuted on that basis. Godfather is just a term of respect, I'm not really in charge of anything."
I wonder if the term "organized crime" means anything to you, if there's absolutely no point at which, for you, the members of an organization are involved in so many crimes that the organization itself must be regarded as criminal. How many separate, individual acts of corruption and malfeasance have to be uncovered, exposed, prosecuted, and ultimately pardoned by the President before it's safe to conclude that the Bush Administration is ordering people to commit criminal acts?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-09-2007 1:20 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-09-2007 11:56 AM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 14 of 25 (439590)
12-09-2007 1:01 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Hyroglyphx
12-09-2007 11:56 AM


Re: The whole government?
Okay, so you basically want to see RICO charges drummed up on every government employee, is that accurate?
Not at all. I simply want those responsible for instituting a culture of corruption, those responsible for ordering illegal acts, those responsible for protecting those acts, and those guilty of war crimes and crimes against humanity brought to justice.
How many separate, individual acts of corruption and malfeasance have to be uncovered, exposed, prosecuted, and ultimately pardoned by the President before it's safe to conclude that the Bush Administration is ordering people to commit criminal acts?
You tell me. Isn't that what I asked you?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-09-2007 11:56 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-09-2007 2:40 PM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 16 of 25 (439625)
12-09-2007 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Hyroglyphx
12-09-2007 2:40 PM


Re: The whole government?
Jar is saying that from top to bottom, any and all people within the government is a criminal.
I don't see where he's saying that. What he's saying is that nearly every influence of this administration on the government has been a bad influence, and I agree.
Rather than being hyperbolic about the whole thing, maybe he should just go after those who are committing the crimes, like you and I suggest.
When someone is ordered to commit a crime, the punishment should be greater for he who ordered it than for he who committed it. Don't you agree?
We should go after who is responsible for the crimes. I think the responsibility goes right to the top. Not just on some kind of principle; the responsibility goes to the top because that's where the orders came from; that's where the conditions were created that made people give those orders.
If Bush is ordering illegal things, then charge and impeach him. So far, no one has been able to do that.
Republicans will never allow it, no matter what crimes we know the President has committed. They're made that obvious. The whole party suborns and condones lawbreaking by executives. It's practically their party platform.
The President of the United States is a bit of a patsy.
This one is, certainly, and it's by his own choice.
We simply need more accountability within these shadow agencies. People like the man who blew the whistle on the very case we are now discussing.
Do you think that's going to happen when the President creates a culture that punishes whistleblowing?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-09-2007 2:40 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-09-2007 6:37 PM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 20 of 25 (439673)
12-09-2007 6:48 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Hyroglyphx
12-09-2007 6:37 PM


Re: The whole government?
I would say they share equal liability generally.
Surely you don't really think that. Or does the term "coercion" mean nothing to you?
Republicans or Democrats don't get to decide that. The Supreme Court does.
Somebody needs to re-read their Constitution. Articles of impeachment ae brought by the House of Representatives, not the Supreme Court.
Remember? That little affair with Clinton? How soon they forget, I guess.
That's what you need to concern yourself with first. And where is the top? General Hayden or President Bush?
Again, reading the US constitution will answer your question about who is the Commander-in-Chief of the US armed forces.
Why do you think that a culture of whistelblowing is being punished?
Because of all the whistleblowers that have been punished by the Bush Administration? Just a thought.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-09-2007 6:37 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
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