Is there any reason that the US government should be trusted?

Well, in the very opening statement of your link, it says:"The Justice Department and the Central Intelligence Agency’s internal watchdog on Saturday began a joint preliminary inquiry into the spy agency’s destruction of hundreds of hours of videotapes showing interrogations of top operatives of Al Qaeda."That means that people working for the internal affairs of the government, government employees themselves, broke the case wide open. Instead of asking if the entire government could be trusted, why not ask whether or not certain individuals could be trusted?

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“This life’s dim windows of the soul, distorts the heavens from pole to pole, and goads you to believe a lie, when you see with and not through the eye.” -William Blake

Where did you come across this information? From what I gather from the link, it was an operative named Jose A. Rodriguez Jr that solicited that information in lieu of his upcoming retirement. And then it went on to say that the White House officials asked that they not destroy the tapes prior to their supposed destruction. That's silly, Jar. So you can't trust anyone in any government position? Not the Supreme Court, Dept of Agriculture, Dept of Education, Dept of Homeland Security, Dept of Treasury, Dept of Labor, etc, etc? I assume also that it means you won't be voting... ever.Come on, Jar. First of all, supposing the CIA did destroy tapes (innocence before guilt), that only comes from one tiny fraction of the US government. If they did do it, is it messed up? Heck yeah. Should they pay whatever penalty that exists within the US Code if found guilty? Heck yeah. But blaming the entirety of the US government to show your disdain seems like a bit much. You are taking individuals and saying that it encompasses the entire department. That's not fair. That's what racists do. You wouldn't want to blame an entire group of people based on something that some individuals have done, would you?

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“This life’s dim windows of the soul, distorts the heavens from pole to pole, and goads you to believe a lie, when you see with and not through the eye.” -William Blake

At the risk of dragging this OT, I won't ask about the stealing of elections. But if the government is as corrupt as you say, then why not just become an anarchist? Why not an overthrow of the government? Why not try to get people to subvert the government if this is how you feel? But more importantly, if every person within the government is corrupt, then why would you vote government officials? If they're ALL bad then what difference does it make?You know, I think Crashfrog works for the US government. Is your buddy an evil co-conspirator too? The only reason the UN exists is because of the US government, the very thing you are railing against. That hardly sounds impartial. Secondly, if the UN is an outside agency, then what gives them the authority to govern the government? Always? Like hyperbole much? I've said it maybe twice, and only because its true. Its ridiculous to assert that everyone working for the government is corrupt. If you were to conclude that, then every single person is corrupt on the same basis, even you. If that's the case, condemn yourself. No its not fair because its tantamount to prejudice. You are prejudging people in the government, when it was a government employee that exposed the allegations in the first place.If certain members of the CIA were destroying evidence, then let the US government prosecute them on that basis. Even up to the Supreme Court, who, ironically enough, are government employees.Are you ready to say that in your zeal that you overstepped your bounds -- that not everyone in the government is the anti-christ?I mean, imagine some people in the CIA. Imagine them saying to the culprits, "Hey thanks guys for perpetuating the stereotype. We really appreciate it. Thanks to you, cantankerous souls living in Texas think we're just like you." Edited by Nemesis Juggernaut, : No reason given.

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“This life’s dim windows of the soul, distorts the heavens from pole to pole, and goads you to believe a lie, when you see with and not through the eye.” -William Blake

Okay, so you basically want to see RICO charges drummed up on every government employee, is that accurate? If so, you and I are screwed.How many separate, individual acts of corruption and malfeasance have to be uncovered, exposed, prosecuted, and ultimately pardoned by the President before it's safe to conclude that the Bush Administration is ordering people to commit criminal acts?

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“This life’s dim windows of the soul, distorts the heavens from pole to pole, and goads you to believe a lie, when you see with and not through the eye.” -William Blake

Then you are in agreement with me. Jar is saying that from top to bottom, any and all people within the government is a criminal. Rather than being hyperbolic about the whole thing, maybe he should just go after those who are committing the crimes, like you and I suggest.

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How many separate, individual acts of corruption and malfeasance have to be uncovered, exposed, prosecuted, and ultimately pardoned by the President before it's safe to conclude that the Bush Administration is ordering people to commit criminal acts?

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Yes. Sorry, I forgot to put quote tags on this.I would say some evidence beyond anecdote. If Bush is ordering illegal things, then charge and impeach him. So far, no one has been able to do that.Much of the things that happen within the intelligence community go beyond the President. Not just this president, but all of them. The President of the United States is a bit of a patsy. Proxy wars are fought with or without his expressed approval.Has the CIA gotten out of control? I don't know. I'm fairly certain they have done many things that are illegal per the Geneva Convention. We simply need more accountability within these shadow agencies. People like the man who blew the whistle on the very case we are now discussing.

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“This life’s dim windows of the soul, distorts the heavens from pole to pole, and goads you to believe a lie, when you see with and not through the eye.” -William Blake

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Jar is saying that from top to bottom, any and all people within the government is a criminal.

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If he meant that, then he should have been more clear. I asked him, specifically, if the entire US government is corrupt. In no uncertain terms he stated that, yes, "ALL" of the government. I would say they share equal liability generally. But I'm sure there are some exceptions to the rule, such as, the perpetrator not having any knowledge of criminality when the one who ordered it does. Is there any evidence that says it did come from the top? That's what you need to concern yourself with first. And where is the top? General Hayden or President Bush? Republicans or Democrats don't get to decide that. The Supreme Court does. Why do you think that a culture of whistelblowing is being punished? There are two fundamental things about whistelblowing.1. The whistleblower is blowing the whistle because there are illegal activities going on. They feel morally obligated to stop the corruption. Then they are either listened to or systematically suppressed for an agenda.2. The whistleblower is intentionally distorting things to further an agenda coming from their side of the spectrum. Essentially they are slandering someone to further their own agenda.

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“This life’s dim windows of the soul, distorts the heavens from pole to pole, and goads you to believe a lie, when you see with and not through the eye.” -William Blake