Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 59 (9164 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,929 Year: 4,186/9,624 Month: 1,057/974 Week: 16/368 Day: 16/11 Hour: 0/4


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Syamsu's Objection to Natural Selection...
Peter
Member (Idle past 1510 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 181 of 343 (47027)
07-23-2003 9:13 AM
Reply to: Message 180 by Quetzal
07-23-2003 5:56 AM


Re: Last Derailment
LUXURY!!!!!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by Quetzal, posted 07-23-2003 5:56 AM Quetzal has not replied

MrHambre
Member (Idle past 1424 days)
Posts: 1495
From: Framingham, MA, USA
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 182 of 343 (47032)
07-23-2003 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 180 by Quetzal
07-23-2003 5:56 AM


Re: Last Derailment
At least YOU had a theater.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by Quetzal, posted 07-23-2003 5:56 AM Quetzal has not replied

Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6506 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 183 of 343 (47033)
07-23-2003 9:38 AM
Reply to: Message 180 by Quetzal
07-23-2003 5:56 AM


Re: Last Derailment
were the movies in color or black and white?..or silent films?
is this Quetzal on his way to catch a classic?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by Quetzal, posted 07-23-2003 5:56 AM Quetzal has not replied

Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5621 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 184 of 343 (47035)
07-23-2003 10:02 AM
Reply to: Message 179 by nator
07-22-2003 11:47 AM


A very large part of the website you refer to consists of denying that evolutionary psychology proscribes morality, with chapter titles such as "Is evolutionary pscyhology racist?", "Is evolutionary psychology sexist?". Why do you think that all that denying is there? Is it because that "psychological adaptations for aggression correspond to our folk notions of 'selfishness.", or is it because of some other reason? Evolutionary psychology does not actually deal in the selfishness of hair and arms, as far as I'm aware, they focus on behaviour.
It is actually very common for racist, and sexist propaganda to carry explicit denials that it is racist or sexist. Nazi propoganda, which had a very rationalistic bent, is full of such things. What they should have done is give a broad overview of the history of the application of Darwinism to psychology, and then discuss how evolutionary psychology tends to influence people's opinions on things. As it is the website shoves things like nobelprizewinner Konrad Lorenz selecting people in Posen under the carpet, and basically says that if you let your values be influenced by evolutionary psychology, then that's your fault, and not the fault of evolutionary psychologists porting shoddy racist, sexist pseudoscience. It is simply ludicrous to say that evolutionary pscyhology is free from racism and sexism as some kind of factual statement. It is an ideal for it to be free of racism and sexism, and evolutionary psychologists and Darwinists generally have made no significant effort to achieve that ideal. You also make no significant effort, you are still essentially just porting your science is a baseballbat argument.
regards,
Mohammad Nor Syamsu

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by nator, posted 07-22-2003 11:47 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 185 by crashfrog, posted 07-23-2003 10:21 AM Syamsu has not replied
 Message 186 by Mammuthus, posted 07-23-2003 10:21 AM Syamsu has replied
 Message 188 by Mammuthus, posted 07-23-2003 10:37 AM Syamsu has not replied
 Message 190 by NosyNed, posted 07-23-2003 10:58 AM Syamsu has replied
 Message 199 by Peter, posted 07-23-2003 12:20 PM Syamsu has not replied
 Message 200 by nator, posted 07-23-2003 7:08 PM Syamsu has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1498 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 185 of 343 (47037)
07-23-2003 10:21 AM
Reply to: Message 184 by Syamsu
07-23-2003 10:02 AM


It is actually very common for racist, and sexist propaganda to carry explicit denials that it is racist or sexist.
It's also very common for people accused of murder to proclaim their innocence. That some people who do are actually guilty doesn't mean that everybody who says that they haven't killed anyone are actually murderers.
I mean, I could just as well say "It's pretty common for people who include variation in their definition of natural selection to deny that they do so on internet forum boards." See how well that works?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by Syamsu, posted 07-23-2003 10:02 AM Syamsu has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 187 by MrHambre, posted 07-23-2003 10:25 AM crashfrog has not replied

Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6506 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 186 of 343 (47038)
07-23-2003 10:21 AM
Reply to: Message 184 by Syamsu
07-23-2003 10:02 AM


Actually it is religious fundamentalist ignorants like yourself that propagate and are responsible for the vast majority of racism and sexism in modern society Symansu...that you have spent the better part of this year in multiple threads trying to shirk the burden does not make it any less true...you are basically a fundie apologist.
Modern evolutionary biology as it pertains to humans is consistently demonstrating that there is less genetic variation between groups than within groups and thus the term and concept of race is not applicable to humans...it took evolutionary biologists to find this out (as opposed to pseudo-intellectuals such as yourself)...but I am sure people like you will cling to superficial distinctions between groups of people as a nice excuse for exploiting or killing them...well, maybe not you personally as you claim to be so busy as an active animal conservationist...how are the rhino's doing these days?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by Syamsu, posted 07-23-2003 10:02 AM Syamsu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 189 by Syamsu, posted 07-23-2003 10:53 AM Mammuthus has replied

MrHambre
Member (Idle past 1424 days)
Posts: 1495
From: Framingham, MA, USA
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 187 of 343 (47040)
07-23-2003 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 185 by crashfrog
07-23-2003 10:21 AM


Okay, I admit it, I include variation in my definition. But about the murders, no comment.
------------------
Quien busca, halla

This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by crashfrog, posted 07-23-2003 10:21 AM crashfrog has not replied

Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6506 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 188 of 343 (47045)
07-23-2003 10:37 AM
Reply to: Message 184 by Syamsu
07-23-2003 10:02 AM


BOO!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by Syamsu, posted 07-23-2003 10:02 AM Syamsu has not replied

Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5621 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 189 of 343 (47049)
07-23-2003 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 186 by Mammuthus
07-23-2003 10:21 AM


Merely fingerpointing Mammuthus. Your extremist anti-religious attitude is basicly anti-human.
regards,
Mohammad Nor Syamsu

This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by Mammuthus, posted 07-23-2003 10:21 AM Mammuthus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 191 by crashfrog, posted 07-23-2003 11:13 AM Syamsu has replied
 Message 193 by Mammuthus, posted 07-23-2003 11:15 AM Syamsu has replied

NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9004
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 190 of 343 (47050)
07-23-2003 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 184 by Syamsu
07-23-2003 10:02 AM


It is also "very common" for people to murder in the name of god. Any newspaper reports of murder in the name of making sure only the fit survive?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by Syamsu, posted 07-23-2003 10:02 AM Syamsu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 192 by Syamsu, posted 07-23-2003 11:15 AM NosyNed has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1498 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 191 of 343 (47052)
07-23-2003 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 189 by Syamsu
07-23-2003 10:53 AM


Yeah, I'm not familiar with anybody who's strapped on a dynamite vest in the name of differential reproductive success. And if religion is so great, how do you explain the tacit Papal approval of the Holocaust?
Let me anticipate your response - "fingerpointing". But how is what you're doing any different? It's hardly our fault if all the fingers you're pointing point back at yourself.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by Syamsu, posted 07-23-2003 10:53 AM Syamsu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by Syamsu, posted 07-23-2003 11:18 AM crashfrog has replied

Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5621 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 192 of 343 (47053)
07-23-2003 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 190 by NosyNed
07-23-2003 10:58 AM


There was a schoolshooting in the USA some years back where one of the shooters wore a t-shirt with the words "Natural Selection". His personal writing revealed an obsession with the theory.
There's also the church of creativity in the USA, which unlike it names implies is actually a selfprofessed naturalist organization, heavily influence by Hitlerism, and Social Darwinist propoganda. An "ex-member" of the church was involved in some racist shootings some years ago.
Both these crimes had major media attention.
There was also the infamous Leiopold-Loeb case many years back, where the perpetrators killed a "worthless" human being, as some kind of intellectual game.
regards,
Mohammad Nor Syamsu

This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by NosyNed, posted 07-23-2003 10:58 AM NosyNed has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 195 by crashfrog, posted 07-23-2003 11:20 AM Syamsu has not replied
 Message 207 by Dan Carroll, posted 07-24-2003 1:52 PM Syamsu has not replied

Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6506 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 193 of 343 (47054)
07-23-2003 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 189 by Syamsu
07-23-2003 10:53 AM


Among your many obvious faults, you apparently don't know how to read either....show me how my post is extremist, anti-religion, or anti-human...
First, I chose my words carefully and referred to fundamentalists i.e. fundie's...not all religious people..just this minority that exists in most religious organizations. You have been painting ALL people, who unlike you, understand the theory of evolution as nazi's and responsible for mass murder...so it is you who is the fingerpointing nitwit.
That religion has been used to justify mass murder is something obvious..pick up a newspaper from today and you will find examples..so show me how my view is extremist?
anti-reglion...why, I have not condemned all religion and have not stated that religion per se is the cause of all the racism or sexism..I said fundamentalist religious views are.
anti-human...I take it by this statement that you are a typical fundie megalomaniac that believes anyone who does not agree with you is therefore evil.
How are all the animals you are conserving from your deep concern for their preservation doing? You harped on this for several posts.. You seem to be ducking the question....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by Syamsu, posted 07-23-2003 10:53 AM Syamsu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 196 by Syamsu, posted 07-23-2003 11:20 AM Mammuthus has replied

Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5621 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 194 of 343 (47056)
07-23-2003 11:18 AM
Reply to: Message 191 by crashfrog
07-23-2003 11:13 AM


It is fingerpointing because if you want to have a serious argument about religion, you could for instance talk about how creationist conceptions of immutability of species, relate to racist notions of racial purity.
regards,
Mohammad Nor Syamsu

This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by crashfrog, posted 07-23-2003 11:13 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 197 by crashfrog, posted 07-23-2003 11:23 AM Syamsu has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1498 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 195 of 343 (47057)
07-23-2003 11:20 AM
Reply to: Message 192 by Syamsu
07-23-2003 11:15 AM


There was a schoolshooting in the USA some years back where one of the shooters wore a t-shirt with the words "Natural Selection". His personal writing revealed an obsession with the theory.
Actually his personal writings revealed an obsession with people picking on him because he was a social outcast. Anyway, how many people did those two guys kill? 19? Islamic fundamentalist suicide bombers kill that many in Israel every day.
There's certainly no indication that natural selection provided a motive for the Columbine shooters. Otherwise don't you think more biology graduates would go on murderous rampages?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by Syamsu, posted 07-23-2003 11:15 AM Syamsu has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 201 by Quetzal, posted 07-24-2003 4:15 AM crashfrog has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024