Hmmm... let me try this with cucumbers.
(I'm borrowing your syllogisms, Jeptha.)
Syllogism 1.
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P1: If cucumbers 'caused' the big bang they would have had to pre-exist the big bang.
P2: Time was created in the big bang and therefore did not pre-exist the big bang.
Conclusion: Therefore, cucumbers pre-existed time.
Syllogism 2.
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P1: Cucumbers pre-existed time.
P2: The term 'before' is a nonsensical term when no time is present.
Conclusion: Therefore, there is no such thing as 'before cucumbers.'
Can you see that if cucumbers do exist and there is no 'before cucumbers,' then it is quite logical to state that they always were?
All jocularity aside: your reasoning is just plain silly Jeptha, you should be ashamed.
Cheers.
Afterthought: in my fridge there is a cucumber which, by the looks of it, I am tempted to say has always existed.
[This message has been edited by Parasomnium, 07-24-2003]