Was Jesus A Legitimate Child?

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Most, if not all of us will not go to heaven. Welcome to the club.

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Too late, I'm already in. I'm merely a beggar pointing other beggars to the source of food.

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EDIT: it seems the most intelligent will be coming my way, it's nice to have intelligent company (be it in hell)

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The ability to relate with others and enjoy doing so are functions of your being made in the image of God. He is relational and he enjoys - thus you (currently) do. Once that image is removed from you there is only you the sinner left.It's the removal of what you take for granted which will go to making Hell Hell. "Lakes of fire" is, I strongly suspect, a way to convey the horror of such an existanceEdited by iano, : Edit lest I sound triumphalist

Then God is not omnipotent? Bounded by the physical laws of time in ralation to the nature of eternity. This seems to suggest that the concept of eternity exists seperately, outside and even overriding of God. Is that right?Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

Surely you are a moral absolutist Buz?Yet your whole absolutism relies on the whims of something (i.e. God) who you cannot predict or know the mind of.For example how can killing in cold blood be morally wrong if when God performs that action it is morally right.Surely this is moral relatavism gone mad?

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Then God is not omnipotent?

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I wouldn't say that. No more than God not being able to create an object too heavy for him to lift reflects negatively on his omnipotence. Omnipotence is not a term that confers (upon God) the ability to perform the ridiculous.

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Bounded by the physical laws of time in relation to the nature of eternity.

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I am working off the notion that eternity doesn't include time. To be created necessitates an existance / realm (if not a time-involved one) without the created. That God exists eternally means (I take it) that God is uncreated.

By ridiculous you seem to mean logically contradictory.
In which case you are saying that God is limited by logic? Logically something created, something with a "beginning" cannot be eternal? Right? That is what you are saying?Thus the obvious conclusion from all of this is that God's "omnipotence" is indeed limited and bounded by logic?
Thus logic must be seperate, external to and in some way "superior" to God.Right?Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

But one can predict and know the mind of God to the extent that God intend for us to know. The longer and the more one studies the scriptures of God, prays and receives responses from God etc, the more one gets to know God as to his intentions, purposes and precepts.The apostle Paul put it that "the natural man knows not the things of the Spirit of God." To be born from above of God's spirit is to have the mind waved into the frequencies of Jehovah's spiritual realm. That helps, but not sufficient outside of serious devotion and study of the scriptures.Let God be God. If he be supreme God, majesty and owner of the universe, who are we, the creatures of him, to judge him? All we can do is to learn to understand his good motives for what he does. I see total justice in all of the killings he has himself required, both of pagans and of his own people who fail to acknowledge and obey his rules.It's all for the ultimate good of the planet and the universe at large.Having said the above, the same goes with the virgin birth. I've shown how no illigitimate act was performed on Mary. I been with God, the commander and a soldier in his army long enough in the war between good and evil to understand and know a lot about his motives and MO relative to why he does what he does relative to his coming kingdom.Having read how it's all going to play out, I know it's all going to end with our side winning and the total defeat of the forces of evil. The virgin Mary's holy child will return to do what he was ultimately born to do, i.e rule the planet as the first ever global righeous kingdom of God on earth.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

You are claiming to know the mind of God? If God cannot be judged by any absolute morality then there is no good or evil beyond that which God decides at any given point in time. If I were God I would not kill people for disobeying my rules or disbelieving. Nor would I send anyone to eternal damnation. These punishments seem too extreme, by my personal definition of morality, for the crimes committed.Does my compassion make me evil?
Is my morality of compassion wicked because it opposes the actions of Gods?
Can compassion ever be evil? How do you know? You are claiming to kno the mind of God again. I don't believe in God. If I were in Gods place I would be more forgiving than God.
Does that make me part of the "forces of evil"?

Straggler, sometimes I think you're pretty sharp and other times I wonder. I SAID, to the extent that he wishes. The Bible is full of what's in the mind of God. Read/study it and go figure. But in this silly debate nobody has substantiated that Mary had sex with any other than her own husband or that the miraculous unusual birth of Jesus came about via anything illigitimate or immoral on the part of God as per his standards set forth in the Bible. But you aren't a god, are you? You ignore the reasons set forth in the scriptures as to why the killing was necessary for the good of all which I've cited.In wars we know that people get killed and things get broken. That's warfare and there is warfare going on in the universe. Scripture (Revelation 12) says Satan and his army will be cast to earth for the final battles, having great wrath.The birth of the messiah/savior, Jesus was necessary for effecting the eventual victory of the war which has raged since Eden on earth. The messiah could not have been a naturally born man. He had to be begotten of God via miracle. If you lack the understanding to grasp that, sorry, I can't help you. That's not the topic perse here. Read the reasons in the scriptures as to why God kills and see for yourself. Well, thankfully, you're not in omniscient God's place. The Bible does say that who is not for God is against him and who resists him will end up in torment. That's not my wish for you or anyone else by any means. That's what it says and I'm convinced of it. Thus the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom as King Solomon stated in the Proverbs. Other writers in the book attest to it. Warnings are all through the scriptures that it's a fearful thing to fall into the hands of an angry god.In his love and compassion for fallen man, that virgin birth which you people regard as illigitimate was for us all that we might escape wrath and enjoy the bliss of salvation and resurrection to a better world. I can't help that you don't believe it. All I can do is cite all of the corroborating evidence that makes me believe it in hopes that you will see the light and enjoy the peace that I have relative to the future and destination.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

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Mary had a little egg which was miraculously fertilized aside from any sex act by spirit having no sex organs.

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This debate is sooo ludicrous. I can't believe the absurdity of the cristophobic arguments some people come up with.

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So it is absurd to suggest a completely plausible mundane explanation, but not believing a miraculous event is "christophobic"?I agree that this debate is ludicrous.

How do you know this Buz?The Bible doesn't include information about every single minute of every single person's life, so how do you know? Which is ludicrous.

I would suggest that he is logic in the same way that he is goodness. I'm not quite sure whether you could say he is limited by logic - as if logic was something separate from him and to which he must bow. He would be limited to acting according to what he is. He can't be what he isn't. I'm not quite sure how to read this sentence. Could you re-write it? See comment up top

May I?

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Romans 12:1Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God”this is your spiritual[a] act of worship. 2Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is”his good, pleasing and perfect will.

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Ephesians 1:3Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will” 6to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace 8that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. 9And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment”to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.

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Edited by iano, : No reason given.

You have already said that whatever God does is good.
So presumably by this definition whatever God chooses to do is also logical? What is it, if not logic, that stops an omnipotent, eternal uncreated God from creating another eternal and uncreated God?
If it is not logic that is limiting a supposedly omnipotent God's actions what is it?Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

Agreed. If God is logic then that is what prevents him from doing as you say. This has no negative bearing on his being omnipotent. Nor need we suppose that God is limited by something outside himself.

To "the extent that he wishes"? How do you know what extent God wishes? You are claiming to know the mind of God again.Is it compassion or retribution? Is it an eye for an eye or turn the other cheek? You are claiming to know the mind of God from the bible but it seems that biblical interpretation can justify most actions in most situations. This, to my mind, is evil.
Aparently by your definition of good and evil my compassionate and moral opposition to eternal damnation makes me evil and destined for damnation.How can you meaningfully justify that as being "good"? Is it also necessary to condemn people to eternal damnation? Why? Are you claiming to know the mind of God again?Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.