Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 59 (9164 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,924 Year: 4,181/9,624 Month: 1,052/974 Week: 11/368 Day: 11/11 Hour: 2/2


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Have evolutionists documented the formation of NEW genetic material?
wardog25
Member (Idle past 5584 days)
Posts: 37
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 1 of 17 (486931)
10-25-2008 5:34 PM


Could you provide me with any specific scientific procedures that have resulted in a gain of NEW genetic material for an organism? (not a changing of current material, nor a doubling of current material. New material. New genes, proteins, etc.)
What evolutionists claim is the mechanism for evolution is what I call microevolution. Everyone is free to call it whatever they like. But that's what I call it.
Bottom line is, it has to add NEW genetic material for the mechanism to work.
So thousands of laboratory tests = many changes in current genetic material, but nothing new. This supports creation: that animals can change within their "kind".
We are still waiting for the tests that show the introduction of new genetic material. So at this point, the evolutionary mechanism gives more support to creation than it does to the theory of evolution.
(and I appologize for my use of the word "species". I forget that I come from other forums where people freak out if you use anything Biblically referenced.)
This is a quote of mine from another thread, but it was off topic, so I'm hoping to start a new discussion.
So can anyone provide any documented lab results, procedures, tests, etc. that have shown an organism gaining genetic material?
Clarification: By new genetic material, I mean exactly that. New. A fruit fly developing a leg that comes out of its head does not count as new. The genetic material for a leg already existed, so there is nothing "new" there, it's just moved. Same thing with doubling of genetic material. That only doubles what we already have, it does not produce anything "new". For the evolutionary mechanism to work, there HAS to be new genetic material formed. So where is the evidence?
Edited by wardog25, : Clarification

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by AdminNosy, posted 10-25-2008 7:18 PM wardog25 has replied
 Message 4 by AdminNosy, posted 10-27-2008 1:17 PM wardog25 has replied

wardog25
Member (Idle past 5584 days)
Posts: 37
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 3 of 17 (487074)
10-27-2008 12:29 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminNosy
10-25-2008 7:18 PM


done. clarification added.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by AdminNosy, posted 10-25-2008 7:18 PM AdminNosy has not replied

wardog25
Member (Idle past 5584 days)
Posts: 37
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 5 of 17 (487358)
10-30-2008 9:29 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by AdminNosy
10-27-2008 1:17 PM


Re: still no definition
Sorry for the slow response. Life is busy.
I was thinking a bit more zoomed out I suppose. But I think you answered my question, because that demonstrates the types of answers I will get. Yes, a mutation constitutes a slightly "new" pattern, but I wouldn't call it an addition to the genome that would eventually allow for the formation of new tissues, organs, and other structures.
Evolutionists will differ of course, saying that if a mutation in the pattern can happen, we can assume that if the perfect order of perfect mutations happened, we'd eventually get something larger that was positive. And we'll be back to what usually happens in these circular discussions, which is drawing different conclusions from the same evidence because of starting with different assumptions.
So since I'm so busy right now, maybe I'll save myself the trouble. That is, unless you can think of a way to define the question in a manner that gets at the heart of the issue. But right now I'm too busy to spend the time on it.
-Thanks

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by AdminNosy, posted 10-27-2008 1:17 PM AdminNosy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by AdminNosy, posted 10-30-2008 9:48 AM wardog25 has replied

wardog25
Member (Idle past 5584 days)
Posts: 37
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 7 of 17 (487416)
10-31-2008 9:08 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by AdminNosy
10-30-2008 9:48 AM


Re: done with it then?
Ok, we can go with that.
The argument is fairly simple from that perspective. Neither artificial selection, nor natural selection (the two observable evolutionary mechanisms) have been demonstrated to produce new tissues, organs, or other body structures.
Assuming that tiny variations from mutations can result in a completely new protein, new kind of cell, or new tissue, is exactly that: an assumption. It has not been scientifically demonstrated and is at best a guess.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by AdminNosy, posted 10-30-2008 9:48 AM AdminNosy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by AdminNosy, posted 10-31-2008 10:07 AM wardog25 has replied

wardog25
Member (Idle past 5584 days)
Posts: 37
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 9 of 17 (487423)
10-31-2008 11:18 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by AdminNosy
10-31-2008 10:07 AM


Re: rewrite it then
I guess I'm not sure how specific of an explanation you are asking for.
A new structure would be something that is not a current structure that was moved. It is not a current structure that is duplicated. It is not a structure that wasn't exhibited because the gene was not activated (but the gene for it was always there). A new structure is a structure that is completely brand new. Something that did not exist before.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by AdminNosy, posted 10-31-2008 10:07 AM AdminNosy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by AdminNosy, posted 10-31-2008 1:41 PM wardog25 has replied

wardog25
Member (Idle past 5584 days)
Posts: 37
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 11 of 17 (487648)
11-02-2008 10:48 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by AdminNosy
10-31-2008 1:41 PM


Re: rewrite it then
I'm not sure how I can give an example of something I don't think exists. That's why I gave examples of what it isn't - so that people can give what they think counts as "new", then we can discuss why it is or it isn't.
Does this make sense? How can I give an example of something that I don't think happens?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by AdminNosy, posted 10-31-2008 1:41 PM AdminNosy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by AdminNosy, posted 11-02-2008 11:52 PM wardog25 has not replied
 Message 13 by Admin, posted 11-03-2008 9:06 AM wardog25 has replied

wardog25
Member (Idle past 5584 days)
Posts: 37
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 14 of 17 (487737)
11-04-2008 8:45 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Admin
11-03-2008 9:06 AM


Re: rewrite it then
I've excluded duplication alone. Not duplication which involves mutation. That was one of the options that someone could bring up and discuss.
Really, the only thing I'm confused about is why I need to be so specific. (Please understand, I'm not criticizing, I'm just used to other boards where the topics are a little more open)
Because, honestly, if I need to take the time to research several different examples of what I'm asking for, I might as well not even ask the question. I assumed people would bring those examples up in the thread and we would discuss them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Admin, posted 11-03-2008 9:06 AM Admin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Admin, posted 11-04-2008 9:32 AM wardog25 has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024