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Author Topic:   Sexual Selection
King Mojo-Jojo
Junior Member (Idle past 3939 days)
Posts: 7
Joined: 11-30-2008


Message 1 of 12 (489832)
11-30-2008 10:14 AM


Hi folks!

By the way nice site!

Im currently having about Evolution in my class, and ive chose to talk about Sexual Selection. I had been researching but i cant find any good site abouts it :)

I also got some questions, if i may.

1. Please explain how the sexual selection did started.
2. Does Sexual Selection accure in Humanbeings.

P.S My english is very bad, because im from Denmark.

- King Mojo-Jojo


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by AdminNosy, posted 11-30-2008 3:17 PM King Mojo-Jojo has not yet responded
 Message 5 by kuresu, posted 11-30-2008 7:44 PM King Mojo-Jojo has not yet responded
 Message 8 by Fosdick, posted 11-30-2008 7:58 PM King Mojo-Jojo has not yet responded

  
AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 2 of 12 (489874)
11-30-2008 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by King Mojo-Jojo
11-30-2008 10:14 AM


Welcome, King MJ
Welcome to EvC. We're glad you like what you've seen so far.

I have a big reluctance to allow anyone here to do your home work for you and that is what it appears you are trying to make happen.

There has been previous discussion here on sexual selection. I suggest that you do a search for it and ask questions on the threads you find.

Perhaps you should tell us what you've learned so far in your research. That might convince me that you've actually done some work on it.

Don't worry too much about your English. We'll help with that too.
(sexual selection does occur in human beings)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by King Mojo-Jojo, posted 11-30-2008 10:14 AM King Mojo-Jojo has not yet responded

  
King Mojo-Jojo
Junior Member (Idle past 3939 days)
Posts: 7
Joined: 11-30-2008


Message 3 of 12 (489896)
11-30-2008 5:53 PM


AdminNosy
Dear AdminNosy.

Ive read a bunch of articles about the peacook, and other various species of animals, and how they use their sexual selected features to impress the female.

Im not sure about this one but, ive also read that Mr Darwin proposed his Theory of Sexual Selection because he had some troubles explain why the peacock has the huge tail. Because it couldnt possible be due to natural selection because it isnt a very good feature to have, if we think surviving ability.

About the peacock's huge tail, is also taking much of the peacock's energy, because the tail takes much energy to growth, and we all know that energy is very important in nature to survive, but then if the female seen a big tail she might conclude that peacock MUST be strong or have good genes because he has to be athletics to survive/run from predators.

What i can conclude on what i read ( in my own logic, hehe ) is that passing on the genes is very very important, and if risk your chance to survive is needed to reproduce, then the creature have to do it.

I have also compared Natural Selection versus Sexual Selection. With a shark picture and a peacock picture :)

Please dont flame me for the next one, because i have an idea about how to explain sexual selection in a Mr Darwin way.

Q: How did Sexual Selection come.
A: I think there is a possiblity that a human had a mutation, lets say blueish eyes, and because of that lack of melanin in the eye, gives the human alot better chance to reproduce/passing on the genes ( which Evolution is all about ) so due to selection by the females, the mutation becomes more and more bigger in the given population due to choice by females.

Im sorry if im wrong, but its an idea im thinking about.

Im very sorry if you folks thinks i want to take your time to do my homework, im just asking for some help to answers those 2 questions, because i cant a single schred of evidence or articel about it.

Sorry for my bad english.

- Daniel.


Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by RAZD, posted 11-30-2008 7:48 PM King Mojo-Jojo has not yet responded
 Message 7 by CosmicChimp, posted 11-30-2008 7:58 PM King Mojo-Jojo has not yet responded

  
AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 4 of 12 (489900)
11-30-2008 6:33 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
kuresu
Member (Idle past 858 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 5 of 12 (489904)
11-30-2008 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by King Mojo-Jojo
11-30-2008 10:14 AM


Jag skulle tror att din engelska är inte så dåligt som min svensk.

That said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_selection

It's a decent starting point.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by King Mojo-Jojo, posted 11-30-2008 10:14 AM King Mojo-Jojo has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 20332
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 6 of 12 (489905)
11-30-2008 7:48 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by King Mojo-Jojo
11-30-2008 5:53 PM


Sexual Selection vs Survival
Welcome to the fray, King Mojo-Jojo,

Im not sure about this one but, ive also read that Mr Darwin proposed his Theory of Sexual Selection because he had some troubles explain why the peacock has the huge tail. Because it couldnt possible be due to natural selection because it isnt a very good feature to have, if we think surviving ability.

The peacock tail is an example of extreme sexual selection, called Fisherian run-away sexual selection. In this instance a feature is selected as a marker for habitat fitness (healthier peacock males have longer and more colorful tails), so it is a short-cut to finding a mate. The selection ALSO selects for females that prefer long colorful tails, and so there is feed-back that keeps this selection going until it begins to affect the survival of the participants.

I believe that runaway sexual selection is responsible for the selection of our large brain through selection for creativity, but that is my personal theory.

Q: How did Sexual Selection come.
A: I think there is a possiblity that a human had a mutation, lets say blueish eyes, and because of that lack of melanin in the eye, gives the human alot better chance to reproduce/passing on the genes ( which Evolution is all about ) so due to selection by the females, the mutation becomes more and more bigger in the given population due to choice by females.

You have a good start. The mutation doesn't become "more bigger" but more widespread "in the given population" (minor english quibble). You also have sexual selection when males compete for females, and the winner gets to mate with more females.

This is why we have herds with dominant males, and also why we have colorful male fish and birds with drab females.

Sexual selection is basically mate preference (your blue eyes prefered by some but not all) and mate coercion also known as bully sex and rape, though application to other species is objected to by some.

Im very sorry if you folks thinks i want to take your time to do my homework, im just asking for some help to answers those 2 questions, because i cant a single schred of evidence or articel about it.

See Sexual Selection, Stasis, Runaway Selection, Dimorphism, & Human Evolution for some references and discussions, but don't take it as fact eh? Perhaps you could post again with the information you have uncovered and show us what you have learned?

Enjoy.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by King Mojo-Jojo, posted 11-30-2008 5:53 PM King Mojo-Jojo has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by CosmicChimp, posted 11-30-2008 8:12 PM RAZD has responded

  
CosmicChimp
Member
Posts: 306
From: Muenchen Bayern Deutschland
Joined: 06-15-2007


Message 7 of 12 (489906)
11-30-2008 7:58 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by King Mojo-Jojo
11-30-2008 5:53 PM


Re: AdminNosy
I hope I'm not wrong, when I say that sexual selection is a complex behavior among animals (people included). It is also a type or subset of natural selection. The sexual behavior of the opposite sex is a part of the environment of the organism being selected or deselected. It started, as far as I can figure out, because it is so near to the fact that fitness is determined by ability to reproduce and success at reproduction. After division of the sexes (as soon as there were two sexes), some type of selection based directly on reproduction itself would become highly important. Sexual selection is then highly important because of its proximity to successful gene carry-over into the next generation.

Genes that play a direct role in their own propagation tend to become more prevalent in a given gene pool, because of a positive feedback loop. Because sexual selection is a set of behaviors that we can say are under the control of genes, the genes responsible for those certain behaviors are the genes then involved in the feedback loop.

I think it is also important to note that the genes involved exist in both sexes and exist in a kind of matched partnership between the two sexes.

So yes, it exists among us humans and I've heard it said that good cooking skills and sense of humor are often selected.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by King Mojo-Jojo, posted 11-30-2008 5:53 PM King Mojo-Jojo has not yet responded

  
Fosdick 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3845 days)
Posts: 1793
From: Upper Slobovia
Joined: 12-11-2006


Message 8 of 12 (489908)
11-30-2008 7:58 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by King Mojo-Jojo
11-30-2008 10:14 AM


On the meaning of sexual selection
Hi King Mojo,

Sexual selection is merely preferential mating, which means, roughly, that the geeks don't get to date the cheerleaders. It can affect natural selection, but it is not the same thing as NS. NS is merely differential reproductive success amongst individuals of a population.

So, if you can't score a cheerleader you can always get someone else to fumble around with at the drive-in movies. But if you don't, then you will be selected against on a Saturday night, both naturally and sexually. And you know what that means: It's just you alone in your room with Mary Fivefingers.

—FTF


I can see Lower Slobovia from my house.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by King Mojo-Jojo, posted 11-30-2008 10:14 AM King Mojo-Jojo has not yet responded

  
CosmicChimp
Member
Posts: 306
From: Muenchen Bayern Deutschland
Joined: 06-15-2007


Message 9 of 12 (489909)
11-30-2008 8:12 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by RAZD
11-30-2008 7:48 PM


Re: Sexual Selection vs Survival
You also have sexual selection when males compete for females, and the winner gets to mate with more females.

This is why we have herds with dominant males, and also why we have colorful male fish and birds with drab females.

... mate coercion also known as bully sex and rape, though application to other species is objected to by some.


Is this really sexual selection? I know I should look it up, but let me ask you first.

I would contend that competition among males for instance is not selection by the female. Does she choose the winner or does the winner fend off advances by rivals making the choice for her?

Edited by CosmicChimp, : spelling


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by RAZD, posted 11-30-2008 7:48 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by RAZD, posted 11-30-2008 8:42 PM CosmicChimp has acknowledged this reply

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 20332
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 10 of 12 (489913)
11-30-2008 8:42 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by CosmicChimp
11-30-2008 8:12 PM


Re: Sexual Selection vs Survival
Thanks CosmicChimp

I would contend that competition among males for instance is not selection by the female.

Not always, but certainly in some cases (see quail mating). You are correct that male competition per se is not female selection -- it is male selection of the males that get to reproduce. Females can (and do) reject the winning male, but generally it works out that to the victors go the goils.

This part of sexual selection was ommitted from the discussion on the linked thread above, as that was more particularly about run-away sexual selection, which has a feed-back mechanism that affects both males and females.

Enjoy.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by CosmicChimp, posted 11-30-2008 8:12 PM CosmicChimp has acknowledged this reply

  
King Mojo-Jojo
Junior Member (Idle past 3939 days)
Posts: 7
Joined: 11-30-2008


Message 11 of 12 (489977)
12-01-2008 5:22 AM


wow
Thanks folks! Ill buy you guys a beer if you come to Denmark in the near future.

Marry Christmas.


Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by anglagard, posted 12-01-2008 6:01 AM King Mojo-Jojo has not yet responded

  
anglagard
Member
Posts: 2203
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 12 of 12 (489980)
12-01-2008 6:01 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by King Mojo-Jojo
12-01-2008 5:22 AM


Re: wow
My dad's friend, an architect student, who lived across the street from our house in Morro Bay, CA, went to Denmark in the mid-70s and he said one could get a pitcher of Carlsberg for 5 cents because it was subsidized by the government.

I am not sure what this has to do with sexual selection in the scientific sense, but after a substantial amount of elephant beer, I could easily envision how any preconceived rules or standards concerning sexual selection in a more general sense may be easily forgotten.

Edited by anglagard, : qualification

Edited by anglagard, : parallelism


This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by King Mojo-Jojo, posted 12-01-2008 5:22 AM King Mojo-Jojo has not yet responded

  
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