Modulous, i don't want to sound like a stupid worshiper but i really wish i could have sent posts in your fashion to those with whom i was debating lately on another forum. Well, i don't see why i shouldn't mention it: the Magle International Music Forum. It's the one forum where i realized how strong the creationist position could be. I'm not saying this in terms of arguments or power of conviction but in terms of stamina and incredible "mauvaise foi" ("bad faith" in french).
Rethoric is the only real tool they (creationists) can use until their opponent gives up when he's not tenacious enough. I've been tenacious and really willing not to change their minds (i always have the Zappa quote in mind*) but to try to swap points of view, in order to have some reflection, knowing that scientific research is by essence not over, and might never be, and thus being able to go beyond this indestructible wall separating faith-based conviction and will to go further in knowledge. I've not been tenacious enough, and found myself copy/pasting lots of things found after more or less long net and library research, that were hardly read. The worst feeling i got was when one of my opponents suggested that i get some degree in scientific fields (astrophysics, biology, paleontology, you name it). I mean, it was a legitimate suggestion since i virtually know nothing. So, this guy sounds very informed and all. But everything he said was cleverly made for supporting the intelligent design view only. A rethorical champion. Sometimes i wondered how i could realize that he was using hypocrisy when he at first seemed to be honest while displaying his knowledge about this or that. Well, each time i gave an answer that was fully satisfying, wether it was about exctinct species, types of mutations or anything , he just gripped to his holy book, eventually. So a quite scholar man can also be a very obtuse man, and now i've stopped posting, because i understood the goal was not to have the last word or to change anything, but to try to practice honesty in a real reflection. As you might have noticed, there rarely is such a value displayed by creationists, and that's what makes me sad.
Anyway i still hope on EvC it's less rare.
*Frank Zappa: "One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds."
Edited by olivortex, : No reason given.