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Author Topic:   Some Questions Concerning the Eden Texts, etc.
Peg
Member (Idle past 4960 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 4 of 23 (512901)
06-22-2009 7:35 AM


Hi, these answers are short and sweet, hope they help.
1) Did Adam and Eve evolve or were they created?
Adam was specifically created according to :
Gen 2:7 'he created man from the clay and blew into his nostrils the breath of life so the man came to be a living soul'
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2) When God took them into the garden were they a basic family?
Gen2:22-24 gives the account of God creating a woman for the man and bought them together. Jesus later used this account to teach people about the wrongfulness of divorce so it is evident that the man and woman became a married couple in Eden. IOW a basic family unit.
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3) If created, were they subject to physical death?
the command given at Gen 2:15 says "as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die"
I can give you my opinion of this, but in your opinion, if Adam was told that he would die only if the ate from the tree, what do you think should have been the result if he had NOT eaten from it?
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4) Was the tree of life not mentioned as a concern along with the
tree of knowledge of good and evil because it was not a concern because they were already immortal?
the Bible does not say that the tree of life in itself had life-giving qualities. Rather, that tree 'represented' God's guarantee of everlasting life to the one who would be allowed to eat its fruit. I say this because the tree of life is mentioned again in the bible at Rev 2:7. There it says that whoever is found approved by God and judged righteous, will be permitted to eat from the tree of life. Therefore the tree symbolizes Gods ability to grant everlasting life to whomever he chooses. (immortality and everlasting life are two different things)
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5) Is the tree of life the antidote to either the physical or spiritual death?
No...The antidote for physical or spiritual death is God. God granted Jesus immoratal life in heaven, there was no physical tree of life that Jesus had to eat from to get it. God can grant it to someone if he chooses.
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6) If they were a basic family and not subject to death would they live forever as a family?
Yes.
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7) Is the Messiah's mission to restore to it's original state what God created or to change things?
Restore what God had created which was a paradise with perfect humans to cultivate it. Rev 21:4 "And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away."
Luke 23:42 "Truly I tell you today, You will be with me in Paradise."
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8) When Isaiah says that the lion will eat hay like the ox will that be a restoration of what was before the fall or will that be a change?
Most of the Scriptural references to the lion is figurative, or illustrative. The nation of Israel were compared to lions as was the power of enemy nations and their ferocious attacks.
However when the Jews were being protected by God, these attacks by the enemy did not happen. Therefore, from their standpoint the 'lion' was, in effect, eating straw like a bull, or in other words doing no harm.
There is a greater fulfillment of these words in the future under Christs rule. Some people may at one time have had a lion-like disposition but thru christ have learned 'peace' and will no longer cause harm to others. I dont believe lions will literally be eating straw ...but surely, just as in the days of the Isrealites, lions will not cause harm to humans or their domestic animals.
In the wild, im sure lions will continue to eat meat.
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) Is this knowledge valuable to a discussion regarding how the age of the earth is thought of?
I think its important to be able to differentiate between the 'earth' and 'man'.
Edited by Peg, : No reason given.
Edited by Peg, : No reason given.
Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by jaywill, posted 06-22-2009 11:34 AM Peg has not replied
 Message 11 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-31-2009 1:27 PM Peg has replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4960 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 14 of 23 (517470)
08-01-2009 4:04 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Hyroglyphx
07-31-2009 1:27 PM


Re: Interpretation
Hyroglyphx writes:
Do you think this passage is poetic and symbolic or do you think that God literally formed Adam from clay and literally has lungs and breathed into Adam's nostrils to give him his soul?
i believe he literally formed the man from the dust.
he created the body for Adam then put life into it. From that point on the body of Adam became a soul/nephesh which literally means 'breathing creature' in hebrew. Animals are also called 'souls' in the genesis account.
So rather then a soul being put into Adam, the man became a breathing creature or a soul according to the original hebrew word (Nephesh)
What is the 'soul' by your understanding and why?
Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-31-2009 1:27 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by ochaye, posted 08-01-2009 6:33 AM Peg has not replied
 Message 16 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-01-2009 8:17 AM Peg has replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4960 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 17 of 23 (517530)
08-01-2009 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Hyroglyphx
08-01-2009 8:17 AM


Re: Interpretation
Hyroglyphx writes:
Animal spirit versus animal soul is a bit of a contradiction when I know that Paul distinguished between the two.
there is a slight difference between soul and spirit. The greek word for spirit is pneu'ma and it means to breath or blow. And the hebrew word for Soul is nephesh which means a 'breathing creature'
so a soul is the living body of the creature, while the spirit is the life force of that creature...
at Job 33:4"Gods own spirit made me, And the Almighty’s own breath proceeded to bring me to life"
In the above scripture from Job, its Gods breath, or his 'spirit' that gives 'life'
The following scriptures shows what happens to the spirit of mankind
Psalm 146:4 "His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground;
In that day his thoughts do perish."
the word used here in greek is pneu'ma. The spirit is the 'breath' which translates to the 'life' of the person. When the life goes out, he returns to the ground and his thoughts do perish.
So its clearly showing that the 'spirit' is not something that lives on, its not tangible, its the breath within the person...or the 'life' of the person.
Hyroglyphx writes:
I've always liked C.S. Lewis' explanation that you don't have a soul, you are a soul.
then CS Lewis would be correct...perhaps he knew hebrew? lol
Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-01-2009 8:17 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-01-2009 11:18 AM Peg has replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4960 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 19 of 23 (517876)
08-03-2009 3:16 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Hyroglyphx
08-01-2009 11:18 AM


Re: Interpretation
Hyroglyphx writes:
Wait a minute, you just said that the soul is the breath of life and the spirit is the life force, whatever that means. So when a person dies and they have no life left in them, they obviously have stopped respirating, what happens then?
i know its a little confusing...i did say soul and spirit are very similar but, not quite.
The hebrew belief was not the same as what the churchs teach about souls and spirits.
the hebrew word for soul simply means 'a living creature' or as CS Lewis says 'you dont HAVE a soul, you ARE a soul'
and the greek and hebrew word for spirit (pne'o & ru'ach) , simply means 'breath' and if something has 'breath' its alive.
so to have spirit, is to have life. Life is the same as the 'life force'
While someone is living, they have it. But when they are dead, the life force is gone.
Here is a scripture that shows that the lifeforce and spirit are one and the same:
quote:
Psalm 104: 25As for this sea so great and wide, There there are moving things without number, Living creatures, small as well as great... 29... If you take away their spirit, they expire, And back to their dust they go. 30If you send forth your spirit, they are created
Do you see how it shows that when their spirit is taken away, they expire?
To have spirit, is to be alive...to loose spirit (breath) is to die.
I'll speak to my hebrew teacher tomorrow and see if she has an easier way of explaining soul from spirit.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-01-2009 11:18 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
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