This thread is meant to be a conituation of the excellent discussion I've had with Peg in the
Help in teaching 11-12 Year olds (RE (Religious Education) in the UK) Thread.
I copied my last reply from that thread here:
Huntard writes:
Peg writes:
you may have a point on that depending on what a 'species' actually is. Have we made the correct determination of what a 'species' is? I dont know.
We were talking about kinds though, not species.
What i said earlier is that the boundary between "kinds" should be drawn at the point where fertilization ceases to occur because in Genesis, a 'kind' was mentioned along with 'go forth and muliply'
Then cats and lions are a different kind, since they cannot "go forth and multiply".
as far as i'm aware, the basic meaning of a "species" is a sort, a kind or a variety.
No, not really. Like I said every "variation" of dog is of the same species.
But then in biologic terminology they apply a species to any group of interfertile animals that have one or more distinctive characteristics. So really, a moggy is the same species as a lion because they have one or more distinct characteristics, yes?
No. That's not how species is determined. The one I personally like is "a group opf organisms that live in a certain area and breed together and have fertile offspring". Bear in mind there are always exceptions, since nature is never either black or white. But we're not talking about species, we're talking about kinds.
but if we take it back to hybridization, some cats of different varieties can be hybridized, but there is a complete inability of man to hybridize with the ape family...therefore apes and man cannot be from the same 'kind'.
Than neither can the common housecat be of the same kind as the lion, since they are completely unable to hyberdize with eachother. As are ostriches and chickens.
We may look similar and have similar characteristics, but those characteristics do not mean we are from the same species so the biologic terminology of what a species is cannot be 100% accurate either.
Humans
are apes of a different species as other apes. No one has said otherwise.
it would seem that chromosomes play a role in successful reproduction.
Genetic compatibility, like Wounded King said, yes.
If you looked at the link re hybridized cats, they show how cats with a certain number of chromosomes are not compatible with cats of a different number. But the point is that even though they have different numbers of chromosomes, they are still cats.
But, according to your own definition, not
all are the same kind of cats.
What I'd like to focus on here is how kinds are defined (according to Peg, they must be interfertile). The current definition however, means that common housecats and lions are
not of the same kind, as they aren't interfertile.
So, Peg, would you like to change your definition, or was there more then one cat kind on the ark?
I hunt for the truth
I am the one Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand
My image is of agony, my servants rape the land
Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain
Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name
Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law
My name is called religion, sadistic, sacred whore.
-Lyrics by Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead