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Author | Topic: Apes vs. Man What are your thoughts?? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
bucane Inactive Member |
As a anthropology student, and a christian I have a torn belief about creation and evolution. Could both have happened? Well the topic that I would like to get going is with Chimps and Gorillas being as close as they are genically to humans wouldn't it suggest that humans have evolved from apes?? I'm not saying that why evolved from modern apes but somewhere in the distant past humans branched off and here we are today. What are your thoughts??
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wj Inactive Member |
Bucane, here is an article which may be of interest to you. Whilst the genetics may be a bit daunting, it is worth the effort. The most interesting case relates to the human GLO pseudogene.
Humans share with other primates the inability to synthesise ascorbic acid. Therefore it has to be obtained through dietary intake (vitamin C). However all other mammals (except the guinea pig) can synthesise ascorbic acid. Primates have a non-functional version of the gene encoding the enzyme protein L-gulono-gamma-lactone odixase (GLO). In 1999 Ohta and Nishikimi found that humans, chimpanzee, macaque and orangutan share a common crippling single nucleotide deletion that causes a triple reading shift.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/molgen/ The simplest explanation is that the primates are all derived from a common ancestor which had the particular mutation which rendered the GLO gene inoperative. Alternative "explanations" such as special creation of humans and intelligent design do not offer a satisfactory explanation for the data. I note that you have not given the usual creationist strawman version of evolution saying that we evolved from chimpanzees or gorillas. That bodes well.
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gene90 Member (Idle past 3852 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
Couldn't we fix that rather easily with germ-line genetic therapy?
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bucane Inactive Member |
Thanks For the info, a am going to have to research that tonight...
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toff Inactive Member |
quote: An articulate and well-phrased question. To answer it, man and modern-day apes evolved from a common ancestor, now extinct. That previous sentence is as close to 'proven fact' as you can get in science (given that science isn't about 'proving' things - proof is for mathematics and alcohol). And regarding your first question - could creation and evolution BOTH have happened - certainly. Evolutionary theory says absolutely nothing about any god, who may or may not have created something (using evolution as his tool). Evolutionary theory conflicts with no popular religious belief - only a very small subset of right-wing christians who choose to interpret portions of the bible literally, in spite of all scientific discoveries and knowledge to the contrary. Definitely, do not feel you are being 'unfaithful' or something similar to your beliefs in a creator/God by also acknowledging the truth of evolutionary theory.
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mark24 Member (Idle past 5225 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
quote: Gene, good point! Is it possible to add single nucleotides at such a specific point? Mark ------------------Occam's razor is not for shaving with.
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BoneLady Inactive Member |
Many many Christians are evolutionists, although I'm not sure what you mean by "both" happening. Both what?
The fact that humans and modern African apes have evolved from a common ape-like ancestor is as definite a fact as it is possible to get in science (it is certainly way more than a "suggestion"!). There really is no doubt about it. There are disagreements about the details, such as specifically what paths and mechanisms this evolution took, but *that* humans have evolved simply is not a question any more (it hasn't been one for decades). BoneLady
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Darwin Storm Inactive Member |
quote: As it stands now, the technology might be there. However that brings up certain lines of ethical and moral question dealing with genetic tampering. The actual work wouldn't be that hard however. Simply replace the defective gene with one from an animal that can make viteman C. Scientists have already done cross species gene splicing. Insulin is a perfect example. Insulin used to be expensive, and fairly rare, considering the source was from corpses. However, human insulin is now produced in vast quatities by simple bacteria. They simply spliced in the gene , and the bacteria started producing it. It is now cheap, and widely available.To change the DNA in a living and fully formed organism is probably difficult, if not currently possible. Perhaps in the future, a process for such modifications could be created and/or refined. I am not certain how advanced genetic engineering is right now.
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Peter Member (Idle past 1509 days) Posts: 2161 From: Cambridgeshire, UK. Joined: |
quote: I know this is off-topic, but could you replace the defective genein the gametes, and produce humans who can manufacture vitamin C ?
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Peter Member (Idle past 1509 days) Posts: 2161 From: Cambridgeshire, UK. Joined: |
quote: For most of us, yes ... it's the YEC's on this forum who object tothe evidence for it.
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BoneLady Inactive Member |
Of course they object! That's their job.
The trick is to get them to stay in one spot long enough to actually discuss the evidence in detail. They tend avoid doing that, because most of them don't know anything about the actual evidence that paleoanthropologists know; they only "know" what they are told by other creationists who themselves have no experience or training and do not read the professional literature.
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Punisher Inactive Member |
Bucane, Without going off topic I would like to address some presuppositions because I think they are important to the subject. You stated initially that you were a Christian. As a Christian; what is your view of the Bible?
To all: I am a complete newb on this board but not to boards in general. I have spent the majority of my time on gaming boards trying to debate evolution/creation to little or no avail. After finding this board, I am reminded of the words of Forest Gump: "Mama, I'm home". Hope to get involved in some great discussions in the future.
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joz Inactive Member |
If you don`t mind me asking Punisher what are your opinions about ToE (theory of evolution), YEC (young Earth creationism) and such?
(sorry if you were already familiar with the contractions ToE and YEC, thought I had better define them just in case.)
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Darwin Storm Inactive Member |
quote: You probably could. Or you could replace the gene in a fertilized egg,before division. Then the gene should activate as the fetus developed. Actually, you wouldn't need to engineer to many children with the gene to introduce the gene. A small percentage of the poplulation should be enough, and let genetic drift spread it throughout the population. Not sure if its dominate or not. That would play a huge factor in spreaded the active gene within the population.
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gene90 Member (Idle past 3852 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
We might be making a mistake though, since our systems have been adapting to vitamin c as an essential nutrient suddenly producing it again might cause overdose.
Try it on monkeys first.
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