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Author
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Topic: Even if there was a Designer, does it matter?
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ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 23 of 214 (589584)
11-03-2010 12:59 PM
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Reply to: Message 17 by Rahvin
11-03-2010 12:00 PM
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Re: It IS important
Rahvin writes: ... if there is a designer with a plan for life on Earth, then the mechanisms we think drive evolution are wrong.
The question is: Does it matter if we're wrong? If all of our ideas about natural mechanisms are wrong, will that prevent us from curing diseases and putting rovers on Mars? If we do discover a Designer sitting on the couch when we get home, will that help us cure diseases and put rovers on Mars? How will knowing the exact population of Paris change my life?
"It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 17 by Rahvin, posted 11-03-2010 12:00 PM | | Rahvin has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 31 by Rahvin, posted 11-03-2010 2:58 PM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 41 of 214 (589662)
11-03-2010 6:07 PM
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Reply to: Message 31 by Rahvin
11-03-2010 2:58 PM
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Re: It IS important
Rahvin writes: Who cares who the designer is - I want his toolbox!
That's my point exactly. It doesn't matter who the designer is or if there is a designer. If we discover some new tools, it doesn't matter who they belong to. All that matters is what use we can make of them. And if we find out that there is a designer but we don't gain any new tools, knowing that he exists is of no value to us. It's all about the tools. The designer is irrelevant.
"It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 31 by Rahvin, posted 11-03-2010 2:58 PM | | Rahvin has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 57 of 214 (589766)
11-04-2010 11:41 AM
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Reply to: Message 56 by Jon
11-04-2010 11:33 AM
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Re: Smaller Steps
Jon writes: If it is true that there was a designer, has it always been true that there was a designer?
I don't think there's any justification for that assumption. The designer could be some alien child who was born last Thursday.
"It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 56 by Jon, posted 11-04-2010 11:33 AM | | Jon has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: The Chase Cut
Parasomnium writes: In short, we have great faith in the methods by which science acquires its "opinions". This faith is justified because, generally, scientific explanations work.
Isn't that what the thread is all about? As long as our methods work, what difference does it make if they're "wrong"?
"It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 74 by Parasomnium, posted 11-06-2010 3:49 PM | | Parasomnium has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: Scientific explanations explain what exacally?
Dawn Bertot writes: You have faith in the Scientific explanations, to what end?
As I said, to the end that they work. If scientific explanations help us to cure diseases and to put men on the moon, then they're good enough. It's nice to know things just for the sake of knowing but it isn't necessary. Knowing that a designer existed would add nothing. We'd still know what we've figured out for ourselves and we still wouldn't know what we haven't figured out yet. Knowing that a designer existed wouldn't help us to do anything.
"It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 81 by Dawn Bertot, posted 11-06-2010 11:40 PM | | Dawn Bertot has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 111 of 214 (598353)
12-30-2010 1:18 PM
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Reply to: Message 109 by ICdesign
12-30-2010 1:03 PM
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ICDESIGN writes: The thread is not about IF the designer exists but IF it matters IF he does exist.
Think of an experiment. What kind of test can you do where you can predict, "If there is a designer, A will happen. If there is no designer, B will happen."
"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 109 by ICdesign, posted 12-30-2010 1:03 PM | | ICdesign has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 135 of 214 (598396)
12-30-2010 4:32 PM
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Reply to: Message 113 by ICdesign
12-30-2010 1:44 PM
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ICDESIGN writes: ringo writes: Think of an experiment. What kind of test can you do where you can predict, "If there is a designer, A will happen. If there is no designer, B will happen."
You first
jar provided a test that your designer fails. Now it's your turn. Show us a test that your designer can pass. Show us a real-world experiment that has different results for a designer than for no designer. You claim that the designer matters, but you haven't shown how he/she/it makes any difference in the real world.
"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 113 by ICdesign, posted 12-30-2010 1:44 PM | | ICdesign has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 180 of 214 (598874)
01-03-2011 1:08 PM
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Reply to: Message 177 by rueh
01-03-2011 11:53 AM
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Re: Hysterical footnotes
rueh writes: By knowing who the designer is we may be able to answer questions such as why they designed a certain way or how they designed to begin with.
" How they designed to begin with" is the important part. We can reverse-engineer the design without knowing or caring who the designer was. The design is more important than the designer. Life is more likely to be reverse-engineered by somebody who believes it can be done than by somebody who believes only a spooky super-designer could do it. Knowing who the designer was could be a liability rather than an asset.
"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 177 by rueh, posted 01-03-2011 11:53 AM | | rueh has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 184 by rueh, posted 01-03-2011 3:10 PM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 188 of 214 (598904)
01-03-2011 4:21 PM
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Reply to: Message 184 by rueh
01-03-2011 3:10 PM
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Re: Hysterical footnotes
rueh writes: As I mentioned earlier we may be able to further expand our investigative techniques to include the supernatural.
"Investigating the supernatural" seems like an oxymoron to me. Anything we can investigate must be natural and it makes no difference whether the originator of it was natural or supernatural. And anything we can not investigate is automatically irrelevant (from a real-world point of view).
"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 184 by rueh, posted 01-03-2011 3:10 PM | | rueh has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 212 of 214 (599279)
01-06-2011 10:58 AM
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Reply to: Message 209 by rueh
01-06-2011 7:34 AM
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Re: a designer vs the tinkerer
rueh writes: I have given several examples how the type of designer can influence how much importance people would place on its identity.
You've given examples of how some entities might have importance. The janitor matters because you might need him to change a lightbulb. The building owner matters because he could evict you. I don't think you've shown how the architect matters.
"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 209 by rueh, posted 01-06-2011 7:34 AM | | rueh has not replied |
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