Even if there was a Designer, does it matter?

rueh writes:Knowing who the designer is leads to questioning why the designer did what they did and that can give us an idea of what we are expected to do in our everyday life.

rueh writes:Hello jar, Well if we knew that it was Brahma that created life it may lead people towards Buddhism. That is one aspect of knowing the identity that can have real world aspects that effect how people would behave in their everyday life.

rueh writes:True we can live our lives with whatever intent we deem appropriate, however if we knew that the designer was in fact the Judaic god, than his intent could have ramifications if we live life opposite of his intentions. This could shape the way that people live their everyday lives. Or if we discover that it was aliens that created life. Wouldn't we want to know why they are seeding the universe with life? I imagine that we would also want to be able to commune with the aliens and knowing their identity could point us in which direction we would need to travel in order to do so.In a purely hypothetical situation such as this discussion, nothing is off limits. So I just don't see how you believe that the ramifications of such a discovery can all be summed up by liability or historical footnotes?

rueh writes: But the design or maker of a model t has no bearing on your life. The designer of all life does have direct bearing on your life because depending on who the designer is, it may come with ramifications. I don't see how you can conflate the two models. One is a car the other is all life as we know it, two very different things.

rueh writes:It has relevance because by knowing the identity, we can hope to garner their intentions. In the case of the Judaic god going against his intentions seems to come with many negative aspects. Or conversely by knowing who it is not we could eliminate superfluous aspects of life brought on by dogma.

rueh writes:Awww so that is something that matters beyond liability or historical footnote. Deciding whether or not we wish to further our investigations. I think you just answered your OP. There are other issues that arise and that matter from knowing the identity of the designer.

rueh writes:Hello Jar, Really Jar? You need me to spell out how the creator of a car has less significance than the designer of possibly every atom in the universe? It's not obvious to you how one could have more future ramifications than the other?

rueh writes:Maybe but you do not specify which type of designer we are talking about. If it were aliens for example we may not need to worry about what occurs to us or even the possibility of an afterlife. However it certainly would shake the foundations of some people’s religious views, just as the evolutionary explanations currently proposed do. However if an omnipotent and active designer such as the Judaic god were to be discovered than the future ramifications that could be present simply by living your life would have a huge impact on many folks lives.I'll try to expand my points later. I have to get to work now. Thanks for the interesting conversation so far.

rueh writes:Well it may be totally irrelevant since we are unable to measure any effects that god has on his creation. However in your scenario you propose that design and a designer have been found. So if it were found not to be the god you believe in. That would have no relevancy on your life? That wouldn't cause you to reflect on your current belief system?

rueh writes:No I meant more of active versus inactive designer. An inactive designer probably would have no importance other than a footnote. Unless the designer proposed had set rules for humanities behavior that are enforceable upon death. Versus an active designer, in which case we would need to reexamine everything we currently understand about the development of life. Since an active designer would have constant input. What we see as current driving forces of evolution would need to be explained through how the designer manipulates these forces.

reuh writes:If as Jar has already mentioned earlier we need to decide as a people to communicate with the designer if possible.

reuh writes:It is proposing that our current models are wrong because of the fact that it presupposes it is all from the will of the designer. In which case science could radically change if they knew which designer of all the hypothetical’s it in fact is.

rueh writes:Does the desinger of your car impact how you believe you will spend eternity?

rueh writes:But the hypothetical situation that you originaly proposed is not dealing with out current understanding of evolution. It presupposes that our understanding of evolution is flawed. Since current theories do not incorporate a designer.

reuh writes:That entirely depends of the "type" of designer. If for example we suppose an active designer. Than our unsderstanding of those forces may never be complete since they could be "tweeked" at any time by the designer.

reuh writes:And if Jar had intended us to consider a designer who is inactive and operated within our known methods of evolution, than he should have specifically stated this. Without this than any hypothetical designer is up for consideration and some of those hypothetical designers have a larger impact than just mere footnotes or liability issues.

reuh writes:No I am merely suggesting one type of designer. One which many folks here already have experience with and can relate to.

rueh writes:Well in that case it is rueh (note the u before the e). I don't believe I have mentioned any janitors or workers of any type. I have however mentioned that the type of designer you choose to propose influences how much their identity could matter. Wouldn't a supernatural designer be just another type of designer? Which type of designer did you have in mind? Are you wanting to discuss a designer that has no impact on everyday life and whose finding would not conflict with any science so far? Or do you think that current theories proport a designer and whose finding would be in line with current theories?

rueh writes:That's not true. I have given several examples how the type of designer can influence how much importance people would place on its identity. Just because you don't want to acknowledge them doesn't mean I haven't shown anything.