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Author Topic:   Is Infinity Real?
slevesque
Member (Idle past 4671 days)
Posts: 1456
Joined: 05-14-2009


Message 13 of 48 (599125)
01-05-2011 3:53 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by nwr
01-04-2011 12:51 PM


But Zeno's paradox is only called so because it is counter-intuitive (veridical paradox), since it is solved through Calculus in Mathematics.
I think the paradox of infinite regression not being possible falls into the category falsidical paradoxes.
I don't really know the outline of the argument so I can't really know for sure. But if the premises are true and no fallacy is involved, then there is no place for skepticism, unless you put into question the laws of logic.
At first glance I see no reason why the universe couldn't be spatially infinite. Past time being infinite, however, I do have some problems with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by nwr, posted 01-04-2011 12:51 PM nwr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by cavediver, posted 01-05-2011 5:26 AM slevesque has replied
 Message 16 by nwr, posted 01-05-2011 8:32 AM slevesque has not replied

  
slevesque
Member (Idle past 4671 days)
Posts: 1456
Joined: 05-14-2009


Message 18 of 48 (599204)
01-05-2011 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by cavediver
01-05-2011 5:26 AM


I have no problem with the mathematics of it. On paper time, past and future, can be infinite and the math will all work out.
However, when we translate this to reality, here is the problem I see. Future time can be theoretically infinite, but in fact it never truly will be. We will advance in time and it will be an ever growing number yet we won't ever reach infinity, ie we will only tend towards it.
Similarily, past time is an ever growing number as time passes by, and in this regards also tends towards infinity. Yet to say that it is infinite means that it no longer tends towards infinity, but in a sense that it has reached it.
It's the difference then from the potential of being able to go on forever, and that we have already been going on forever.
I hope it's clear cause I don't have the feeling it isn't. As I said, I don't have any problem when discussing infinite time mathematically, only when we are supposed to apply it to reality.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by cavediver, posted 01-05-2011 5:26 AM cavediver has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-05-2011 11:56 PM slevesque has replied

  
slevesque
Member (Idle past 4671 days)
Posts: 1456
Joined: 05-14-2009


Message 22 of 48 (599244)
01-06-2011 12:41 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Dr Adequate
01-05-2011 11:56 PM


Yeah I juste want to make it clear: This is a tentative position I have right now, I have no strong reason to rule anything out a priori, only my intuition on the subject.
But I would see time as analog not to space, but rather to moving through space. Saying past time is infinite would them be like saying something moving through space has come from an infinitely far distance.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-05-2011 11:56 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-06-2011 4:40 AM slevesque has replied

  
slevesque
Member (Idle past 4671 days)
Posts: 1456
Joined: 05-14-2009


Message 24 of 48 (599351)
01-06-2011 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Dr Adequate
01-06-2011 4:40 AM


In this analogy, what would space represent?
Surely it is the passage of time which is like moving through space, and time itself is like space.
Yeah this is where it's tricky, can time exist without it 'passing' ? Can we really dissociate 'passage of time' and time like that ? Intuitively no, and this is why I find it better to compare passage of time with moving through space, instead of just space and time.
Because I really see it like this. In the case of space, if it is infinite, it means to me that I could potentially travel for as long as I want, tending towards infinity without ever in reality reaching it.
Same applies to future time. I (meaning the energy composing me) can potentially live forever, but never actually will have lived on forever.
But past time being infinite, means that it is no longer just 'potential' but reality. It means I have actually lived on forever.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-06-2011 4:40 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-06-2011 5:25 PM slevesque has not replied
 Message 27 by cavediver, posted 01-07-2011 4:42 AM slevesque has not replied

  
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