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Author | Topic: Social Unrest? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I recently read an article in The Telegraph(UK Newspaper) concerning The Global Unemployment Crises. Note that this is a global issue, and not simply a U.S. issue.
quote: It seems to me that from what else I have read, I gather that much of the problem stems from the fact that the global wealthy and corporate interests are basically hoarding their money and not spending. When they do hire, it is jobs that pay much less than the jobs that were lost when the current recession started. To me, this is also a perception of unfairness. Why should only the wealthy be able to earn money and determine the value of a worker?? Why is global competition between the emerging countries and the current industrial leaders being forced, and, what are the implications of such a clash??
Telegraph writes: This sort of unrest worries me a lot more than any perceived end of the world scenario from the Christian Right. It portends a coming revolution globally.
It noted that social unrest related to the crisis has been reported in at least 25 countries, including some recovering emerging economies. quote: I don't mind working harder, nor even going back to school if I can, but this sort of competition is a bit unfair. America should look out for its own first,...before simply hiring the stranger across the pond.
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Jon writes: Do not confuse the reporting of unrest with its actual occurrence. Perhaps current attention will finally start getting underway certain measures required to fix the problem we have been creating for the past several decades. Dont tell me that we are overpaid. Wages are now dropping, and we are expected to live on less while working harder. Again, I can accept working harder and attempting to further educate myself...even at my age. I do not think, however, that my government should sell out to the corporate interests and the wealthy that have no preference for American labor over foreign labor. What solutions do you propose, Jon?
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Dont be trite.
you said:
Jon writes: Perhaps current attention will finally start getting underway certain measures required to fix the problem we have been creating for the past several decades. I then asked: What solutions do you propose, Jon? (in other words, what measures need to be undertaken?)
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Its a bit of a personal rant that we have had. I work at a unionized grocery store and have worked twenty years...making a wage now of $16.00+ an hour.. which still puts me a bit above the poverty line, had I a family of four.
Lower wages will not help an economy recover. (A U.S. Economy) but they will help emerging and developing nations grow.
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
what good does it do to halt inflation if you have to take a 30% salary cut? the point I am making is that we are not helping progress?
Why should corporations be allowed to have no allegiance to the country of their origin? If they insist on doing this, we ought double the taxes on them and force them to help protect our way of life. Edited by Phat, : further explanation
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Jon writes: Do you know what inflation is? Did you read the part about labor being a resource, an input? First of all, the issue is which resource do you support. The company should help local labor first, in order to help America. Helping India does nothing for anyone but corporate executive paychecks.. You pay your kid to mow the lawn, even if it costs more than hiring the Mexicans. As for inflation, I realize that increasing wages increases prices. We don't seek wage increases...we simply seek to be paid the same, since we already are working harder and contributing more value for our jobs. Americans need to work harder---true---but we should expect this to benefit us and not simply keep us running in place.
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
and thats the problem. Corporations are impersonal. And like them, I would pay the cheaper wage. We as Americans need to organize and stick together!
I fear the war that may occur if Americans are dumped by a competitive uncaring world. We DO have WMD's after all. Not that I would favor using them, but many folks would rather fight than lose.
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
frako writes: My point, among other points, is that we are getting less than we used to get. Whether we deserve it or not is open to speculation.. what i mean by no money world is that you get what you deserve. Who determines and/or sets the value scale?
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
frako writes: Whats the difference between use and abuse? Utilization versus exploitation? ...if the system allows us to abuse it we will abuse it for our own personal gain. do a fair job and get a fair wage, I say.
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Allow government to pool all the wealth of the people then allow the government to define who needs to live on what.
Except that many governments around the world are in debt. Evidently, someone decided that debt was not a bad thing, though it makes the borrowers slaves to the lenders. The government has it's experts who's had years and years and years so they would know how to wisely manage the money. How many people would do enough homework to elect good leaders? I hate campaign ads, by the way.
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0
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Phat writes: Who determines and/or sets the value scale? Frako writes: the market does, supply and demand, or in some cases you can if you have enough money mostly in stocks though. Good article in yesterdays Denver Post:
Many who started in middle class find lifestyle slipping away. Some quotes from the article:
quote:Devastating! In the past year since I started this topic, social unrest has in fact been increasing, as witnessed by the "occupy WallStreet" crowd. quote:The article notes that this study was done before the economic downturn of the past few years. quote: Again, I ask the question--what can we Americans do to reclaim our destiny? If we get educated and work harder yet still make less than Mom and Dad did, can you blame us for being angry?
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
jar writes: Some recent news stories have looked at spending on infrastructure, stuff like road, rail, dams, bridges, communications. The US current budgets (and often does not fund) about 2% of our GDP on an infrastructure that has been basically ignored for almost a half century now. Other nations, China, India, much of the EU seems to actually fund 5% to 10% of their GDP annually on infrastructure improvements and replacement. How long can we continue to simply allow our infrastructure to remain at a deteriorated half century old standard? Is there a way to fix the infrastructure by training and hiring people...putting them to work fixing the roads and bridges rather than cutting these services? Seems that we had enough to fund two wars. Investing in ourselves seems like a wise move.
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Crashfrog writes: Isnt it also limited by the willingness of lenders? What if everybody globally decides to stop buying our debt?
The amount that we can borrow isn't limited by "resources", it's limited by Congressional statute.
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
jar writes: Sooner or later we will have to address paying back the debt already accumulated. Rahvin writes: Regardless of current economic conditions, the US has still never once defaulted on a loan payment, and is in fact forbidden to do so by law. US bonds remain highly valued. Woah...wait a minute, let me get this straight. If our debt is an attractive investment, is this not hooking the U.S. middle class into virtual debt enslavement? And you say that we cant default by law...so we are legally obligated to pay back an enormous and ever growing sum.....but how does debt benefit us? Pay attention, people! It is us that matter first, here. I'll be damned if I shall fore-go my retirement and jeopardize the future of our youth simply to pay interest to China! *war drums pounding in background* I smell another rich people conspiracy here...after all, they benefit by helping foreign investment...not I. Our small time occupation of Wall Street symbolism may one day grow into a national revolution....and when America gets pissed off, the rest of the world has justifiable fear. *sighs*...is there any sane solutions, here? Edited by Phat, : changed subtitle
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I remember once when you brought this up, jar:
Fareed Zakaria writes: The U.S. is the only rich country in the world without a national sales tax or value-added tax (VAT). Germany has one at 19%, Britain at 20% and Korea at 10%. What’s the appeal of a consumption tax? First, it is efficient. Most studies, including the IRS’s, suggest that the federal government loses several hundred billion dollars a year to tax fraud. This is tougher to pull off with a consumption tax. Second, it provides the government with a more stable source of revenue than income taxes, which fluctuate greatly between boom and bust years. Third, Americans consume too much, often using credit and leverage to do so. A consumption tax would moderate this behavior. Government will always get less of behaviors it taxes and more of what it subsidizes. Several hundred billion saved would do much to help our situation.
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