quote:
Originally posted by John Paul:
John Paul:
Life itself is testimony to a Special Creation. It exhibits CSI and IC. You can falsify that premise by showing life could originate via purely natural processes.
Thanks for answering, John Paul. Let argument commence!
I wonder if you would clarify two points?
1. My original "challenge" was to ask for your best shot on whether the
diversity of life was the result of special creation, not whether life
originated by special creation.
I was thinking here of theistic evolutionists. Such might accept a divine origin of life in some form, or at least ascribe some meaning to "God created", but hold that evolution is entirely responsible for the diversity of life. However, I think I can see from your other posts that you tend to regard special creation as responsible for the diversity of life too.
So, could you possibly elaborate on how CSI or IC supports arguments that the
diversity of life is due to special creation. Would it not be possible for the traditional God of mainstream western Chistianity to set in motion natural processes which would give rise to these features.
2. I am curious as to why you think that life exhibits CSI. Could you explain how life is both Complex and Specified in Dembski's sense?
How can one decide if the diversity of life is "specified" in Dembski's sense rather than "fabricated"?
In what way is the complexity of life "detachable" in Demsbki's use of the word?
3. IC raises a interesting difficulty, as it largely appears to boil down to whether some natural structures are indeed irreducibly complex or, more importantly, plausibly so. For example, haemoglobin has been claimed as an irreducibly complex molecule which reveals design: on the other hand there claims of possible evolutionary pathways for the same molecule. Even in the technical literature this seems to boil down to plausibility.
As a non-specialist I have a simple approach to this. I may not be able to judge individual cases of irreducible complexity, but
how much irreducible complexity would I expect to find in a created world? How many irreducibly complex structures would I anticipate. I am astonished by the paucity of examples of IC proposed by creationists - far fewer than I would find in even such a simple designed structure as an automobile. When even natural processes such as erosion can create simple IC structures such as stone arches (I had the great pleasure to see an ice arch form over a stream near my home a few years ago), surely a designed life should abound in IC structures? I don't claim this approach as a solution to claims of IC for individual cases: those nearly always require sepcialist knowledge I am not qualified to assess.
One final point, as you are raising an ID argument. Demsbki often uses the No Free Lunch theorems to hold a position that mutation and selection cannot deliver CSI and that where they appear to it is because CSI has been "smuggled in."
Would you take a position that
a: special creation
directly produces the diversity of life (a creator made the world diverse)
or
b: a creator "smuggled in" CSI to the genetic process
or perhaps something else?