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Author Topic:   How can we regulate guns ... ?
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9207
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


(1)
Message 608 of 955 (687779)
01-16-2013 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 604 by ICANT
01-16-2013 1:31 PM


Re: It may already be impossible to regulate guns...
But what difference does it make the size of the magazine?
You are talking about highly trained individuals. Also if your argument had any merit no one would have ever developed the larger magazines. I have fired many weapons. The changing of the magazines is a stopping in point in the flow. Do you know any military people. You might want to run this argument by them. You might get laughed at though.
Using a 10 round magazine it would take me 4 seconds longer to fire 30 rounds out of my 30.06 semi-automatic rifle than it would a person to fire 30 rounds out of an AR15 semi-automatic rifle, with a 30 round magazine.
Want me to set up the test? You are wrong. In the time it takes you to remove the clip the 30 round mag would be emptied. You cannot shoot your 30-06 that quickly. An AR-15 is going to have less muzzle rise and is much more controllable than a 30-.06 semi. The AR-15 would be empty and on target before you emoted you 10 round 30-06.
Tell me when you want to do the test. I'll set it up.
That being said AR-15 to AR-15 what you claim is not possible.
The problem is that only 358 people were murdered in 2010 with rifles of all kind, which was up from 351 in 2009, which was down from 380 in 2008, which was down from 453 in 2007.
During the 10 year assault rifle ban from 1994 through 2003 murders by rifles of all kinds not just assault rifles averaged 519 per year.
Provide sources if you want to discuss claims.
We need to attack the problem which is humans as they are the ones who pull the trigger. I have never know of a rifle placing a round in the chamber and aiming itself at someone and depressing the trigger causing the firing pin to strike the round causing the projectile to eject from the barrel and strike that someone.
People are the problem not the guns.
I have never seen anyone shoot anyone without a gun in their possession.
But it isn't really people who are the problem. People by themselves cannot shoot anyone. It is people with guns that are the problem.
(Hat tip for help on the last bit)

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 604 by ICANT, posted 01-16-2013 1:31 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 643 by ICANT, posted 01-17-2013 2:24 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9207
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 614 of 955 (687787)
01-16-2013 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 613 by Straggler
01-16-2013 3:14 PM


Re: NY Vs Chicago
Rather than act like a sarcastic dick why not actually state whether you think a wider rollout of such measures would have a positive or negative effect and make an evidence based case for the position you hold on this?
As he admits he has no clue about NY's laws, I don't think that will be happening.
CathSci writes:
You're right. I'm lazily generalizing. I'm honestly not familiar with New York's gun laws. I'm under the assumption that the gun laws in Chicago are similiar to New York's. The FOID card is just a subset of those regulations that I can easily point to.
Message 611

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 613 by Straggler, posted 01-16-2013 3:14 PM Straggler has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 617 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-16-2013 3:41 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9207
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 623 of 955 (687800)
01-16-2013 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 617 by New Cat's Eye
01-16-2013 3:41 PM


Re: NY Vs Chicago
Are NY's gun laws dissimiliar to Chicago's?
Since you are the one discussing it like you know, why don't you tell me.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 617 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-16-2013 3:41 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 624 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-16-2013 4:44 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9207
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 634 of 955 (687863)
01-17-2013 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 632 by New Cat's Eye
01-17-2013 10:15 AM


Re: Moderator Request
Please explain this to me. I know some people will purposefully misunderstand others, and I know that some people aren't bright enough to understand.
Be a man would you. Say it our shut up.
I am still confused by you claim about piracy. So now it was an analogy? You are not making sense.
Also, I never thought Theodoric was trying to say that failing to support one regulation means one must support no regulations.
:
quote:
You are stating that because their is illegal file sharing we cannot control guns? Excuse me but that argument is asinine.
quote:
But I guess since people could possibly, conceivably, in some future circumstance produce a magazine that holds 20 rounds in their own homes, we should do nothing to control guns.
The first comment is a reasonable inference from your post. The second seems to reflect a general argument by a number of people here. You have heard of rhetoric haven't you? I'd post a definition, but looking it up yourself is a good way to learn. It very effective in making a point.
Again not sure where you think online piracy is relevant. The backpedaling doesnt seem to be working to good.
Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 632 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-17-2013 10:15 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 639 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-17-2013 11:04 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9207
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


(1)
Message 644 of 955 (687893)
01-17-2013 2:39 PM
Reply to: Message 643 by ICANT
01-17-2013 2:24 PM


Re: It may already be impossible to regulate guns...
Each aim is a stopping point also. Now if you are just spraying bullets without regard for where they are going that is different.
Wow! No kidding. But then again, do you think in most of these incidents the perpetrator is taking time to accurately aim? What side are you arguing on?
There was a commerical on TV yesterday where a man changed a 10 round magazine in a 30.06 rifle. There was a magazine in the rifle and he took it out and put in another and took that one out and put in another and did it in less than 10 seconds. And he was not doing it to show how fast it could be done but that it did not take much time to change the magazines. And believe you me he was slow.
Didn't really address my point did you? What kind of rifle? Did he just empty it as fast as he could prior to changing it?
You mean like all my buddies that get together at the firing range every week. Yea, quite a few. We get together and see who can shoot the straightest at rapid fire. You know hit the center of the target, as fast as you can shoot.
Not impressive. Kind a sad actually. My buddies and I aren't impressed by who of us has the biggest dick either.
You may not have but have you ever see anyone shot with a gun?
Is that a serious question or are you posturing? What I have seen or done has nothing to do with the topic.
So put the gun in a gun rack and see how many people it kills.
Thanks for making my point. In the gunrack it is accessible to anyone to use in any manner they want. Now how much damage could be avoided if it wasn't left int he gun rack for anyone to take.
A gun is a tool
Your comment above about the shooting range kind of destroys this argument doesn't it.
Edited by Theodoric, : Punctuation, clarification

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 643 by ICANT, posted 01-17-2013 2:24 PM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9207
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 652 of 955 (687905)
01-17-2013 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 650 by ICANT
01-17-2013 3:47 PM


Re: The case for limiting the number of bullets that can be fired
But when it comes to my house and my property there are no rules.
This is so ridiculous it hardly deserves answering.
But,
There are a myriad of state, federal and local rules that affect your house and property even rules about guns.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 650 by ICANT, posted 01-17-2013 3:47 PM ICANT has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9207
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


(1)
Message 697 of 955 (687955)
01-18-2013 12:07 AM
Reply to: Message 694 by Faith
01-17-2013 11:55 PM


Re: yes registration
Funny how the boogymen such as Hitler and others have a way of making use of registration records when they want to round people up.
Please show evidence that registrations were used to round people up. You speak so confidently about it that i assume you can point to the evidence such things have happened.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 694 by Faith, posted 01-17-2013 11:55 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 698 by Faith, posted 01-18-2013 1:08 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9207
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


(3)
Message 699 of 955 (687958)
01-18-2013 1:22 AM
Reply to: Message 698 by Faith
01-18-2013 1:08 AM


Re: How gun laws tyrannize people
So no evidence at all. Assertions and right wing scare tactics. Find some evidences and sources please.
I've heard this from so many sources I don't even know where to find the evidence.
Doesn't make it true does it.
You notice how none of your "sources" actually provide any evidence. I wonder why?
So your support is some reviewers words. No evidence at all.
Wow!!!

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 698 by Faith, posted 01-18-2013 1:08 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 700 by Faith, posted 01-18-2013 2:33 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9207
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


(3)
Message 706 of 955 (687979)
01-18-2013 9:19 AM
Reply to: Message 700 by Faith
01-18-2013 2:33 AM


Re: How gun laws tyrannize people
What evidence could you possibly have for historical facts other than people saying they occurred?
How about historical evidence? Documents, news reports, contemporary writings of people. We have all those things for the Beer Hall Putsch, Kristallnacht and the The Night of the Long Knives. But there does not seem to be anything about the time Hitler used gun registration records to round people up.
That would have been stupid as he had the support of many Germans. He ascended to the Chancellorship through legal means. Gun owners were not round up. As a matter of fact gun ownership was expanded in 1938. Ownership laws were loosened so that age for legal possession was lowered from 20 to 18 and it completely lifted restriction on all guns except handguns, as well as on ammunition.
If I owned the books all I could do is quote them and give their sources.
But they don't give sources do they.
What would convince you that historically genocides are linked to gun laws? Anything?
Original sources.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 700 by Faith, posted 01-18-2013 2:33 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 721 by Faith, posted 01-18-2013 4:49 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9207
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


(1)
Message 708 of 955 (687986)
01-18-2013 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 700 by Faith
01-18-2013 2:33 AM


Re: How gun laws tyrannize people
Oh yeah I for got to mention this.
The quote from Hitler that you will see on all your right wing propaganda sites.
quote:
This year will go down in history! For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!
Is bogus. There is no evidence he said anything like this. Made up, not real, a lie.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 700 by Faith, posted 01-18-2013 2:33 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 719 by Faith, posted 01-18-2013 4:46 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9207
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 713 of 955 (688005)
01-18-2013 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 712 by NoNukes
01-18-2013 1:03 PM


Would never stand up to judicial review anyway.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 712 by NoNukes, posted 01-18-2013 1:03 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9207
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 743 of 955 (688058)
01-18-2013 6:37 PM
Reply to: Message 719 by Faith
01-18-2013 4:46 PM


Re: How gun laws tyrannize people
I didn't quote it so you're lying to make an issue of it in relation to anything I said.
Never said you did. So I am not lying am I. But as you are prone to believing just about anything that supports your views, I just wanted to warn you about this before you embarrassed yourself and used it.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 719 by Faith, posted 01-18-2013 4:46 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 781 by Faith, posted 01-19-2013 7:41 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9207
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 744 of 955 (688059)
01-18-2013 6:44 PM
Reply to: Message 721 by Faith
01-18-2013 4:49 PM


Re: How gun laws tyrannize people
Try trusting people who did the research to make a video and write some books on the subject you nasty lousy evil people who refuse to accept decent information but keep demanding the impossible.
They did no research. Do you know how I know they did not do any research. Because their claims are not true. They do not give any original sources. This information is all propaganda.
You expect me to believe stuff these guys are putting out independent, reviewed and sourced information.
Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership
Considering how you feel about non-christians I am surprised you would use a Jewish group to support your viewpoint. But they're still going to hell aren't they.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 721 by Faith, posted 01-18-2013 4:49 PM Faith has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9207
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


(1)
Message 749 of 955 (688081)
01-18-2013 11:20 PM
Reply to: Message 748 by foreveryoung
01-18-2013 11:08 PM


Re: How gun laws tyrannize people
This wasn't done by law was it?
Uh, yes it was.
Executive orders anyone?
Which of the recent Executive Orders are tyrannical?
The shootout that would have occurred when the military and the SS came to root the jews out of their homes, would have been noticed by everyone, and perhaps, the world would have known more clearly that there , indeed, was a genocide in progress.
You really should learn facts before you spout off. Ever hear of the Warsaw Ghetto? The armed Jews didn't do much except die. The world leaders knew about the genocide. It just wasn't "expedient" to deal with it.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 748 by foreveryoung, posted 01-18-2013 11:08 PM foreveryoung has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 750 by foreveryoung, posted 01-18-2013 11:25 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9207
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 751 of 955 (688083)
01-18-2013 11:32 PM
Reply to: Message 750 by foreveryoung
01-18-2013 11:25 PM


Re: How gun laws tyrannize people
Guns were confiscated from the jews according to a law passed by the german parliament?
Yes
Which of your shoes are colored purple?
So none. Why did you bring them up as tyrannical if in fact they are not?
You should really learn facts about the movie "white men can't jump". Ever hear of Wesley Snipes? The world's men know about steroids. It just wasn't expedient to cut kill chicken by ringing their necks.
I bet you have no idea what point I am making do you?
Don't care cuz it ain't relevant to the conversation. Now do you want to make a claim that the world did not know about the genocide?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 750 by foreveryoung, posted 01-18-2013 11:25 PM foreveryoung has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 752 by foreveryoung, posted 01-18-2013 11:42 PM Theodoric has replied

  
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