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Genesis 1: Schematic?

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Author Topic:   Genesis 1: Schematic?
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2794 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001

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Message 5 of 11 (68769)
11-23-2003 4:16 PM 		Reply to: Message 4 by w_fortenberry
11-23-2003 1:47 PM

Life Before Man
fortenberry quotes:
quote:
And the LORD God formed man ... And the LORD God planted a garden ...
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fortenberry writes:
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These verses do not state that God created man before He created plants. It simply states that after God created man, He formed a garden ...
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If one reads carefully one may note that verses immediately preceding the ones you quote reveal the context in which the man is created:
quote:
... when no plant of the field was yet in the earth and no herb of the field had yet sprung up ... then the LORD God formed man ...
If there are no plants "in the earth" before man is created, then your theory has a problem.
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db
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"I was very unwilling to give up my belief." Charles Darwin
This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by w_fortenberry, posted 11-23-2003 1:47 PM w_fortenberry has replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by ConsequentAtheist, posted 11-23-2003 6:22 PM doctrbill has replied
 Message 8 by w_fortenberry, posted 11-23-2003 10:21 PM doctrbill has replied
  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2794 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001

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Message 7 of 11 (68844)
11-23-2003 7:09 PM 		Reply to: Message 6 by ConsequentAtheist
11-23-2003 6:22 PM

Re: Life Before Man
ConsequentAtheist writes:
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Perhaps it's the difference between 'theory' and 'rationalization'.
Sometimes I use the word theory rather loosely; and in the above case, quite generously.
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"I was very unwilling to give up my belief." Charles Darwin
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 Message 6 by ConsequentAtheist, posted 11-23-2003 6:22 PM ConsequentAtheist has not replied
  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2794 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001

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Message 9 of 11 (68963)
11-24-2003 12:33 PM 		Reply to: Message 8 by w_fortenberry
11-23-2003 10:21 PM

quote:
... in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, and every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: ...
fortenberry writes:
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The phrase "and every plant of the field before it was in the earth" is simply a statement that God created every plant "from scratch" rather than from other plants.
by what circuitous logic do you arrive at such a spin?! These Bible translators appear to disagree with you.
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quote:
1) "... no shrub of the field was yet in the earth ..." New American Standard
2) "... there was neither shrub nor plant growing wild ..." New English Bible
3) "... there was as yet no wild bush on the earth nor had any wild plant yet sprung up ..." Jerusalem Bible
4) "... there was as yet not a shrub on the earth, nor any plant sprouting in the field ..." Modern Language Bible
5) "There were no plants or grain sprouting up across the earth ..." Living Bible
6) "... no plant of the field was yet in the earth and no herb of the field had yet sprung up ..." Revised Standard Version
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fortenberry writes:
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There is no indication within these verses that man was created before God had created plants.
Well, let's look at that: Verses preceding creation of the man say there were no plants in the earth. Verses following creation of the man have God creating plants.
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2+2= ?
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Like the man said, One has to read carefully.
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"I was very unwilling to give up my belief." Charles Darwin
This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by w_fortenberry, posted 11-23-2003 10:21 PM w_fortenberry has not replied
  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2794 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001

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Message 11 of 11 (69407)
11-26-2003 11:57 AM 		Reply to: Message 10 by lpetrich
11-25-2003 12:51 AM

Re: Genesis 1 vs. Genesis 2?
lpetrich writes:
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it seems like an attempt to construct some sort of cosmogonic theory
I agree.
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Aristotle's schema is not quite useful.
Genesis was commited to writing long before Aristotle came on the scene. I don't know how many of Aristotle's ideas were original, but his view of the 'elements' seems to have been familiar to the compiler/editor of Genesis. The Greeks credited their own guys with a number of advanced notions first proposed by Babylonians. I suppose this is not unusual in the history of conquest.
{Remember how Ensign Checkov credited Russians with every significant discovery in science?}
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You may find interesting some observations which I have made on the subject of Aristotle's ideas in relation to Genesis One. These views were probably 'old hat' to the 'scientists' of Babylon. The editor of Genesis undoubtedly received his education in that most prominent center of advanced 'scientific' theory. Please let me know your thoughts about this page.
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Primal Elements
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"I was very unwilling to give up my belief." Charles Darwin
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 Message 10 by lpetrich, posted 11-25-2003 12:51 AM lpetrich has not replied
  
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