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Author | Topic: Hello everyone | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
quote:Answer me this: Why would it be impossible for Jesus to be alive today and for science to also be true? Edited by Phat, : No reason given.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
Why would it be impossible for Jesus to be alive today This is what drives me crazy about you and your ilk. You take simple words and give them different meanings and expect people to accept these redefinitions unquestioningly. If Jesus had existed he would be 2000 years old. Use a word that accurately reflects what you want to express. Newsflash! Your Jesus is not alive.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
of course i don't expect you to accept it. You worship your intelligence and that of others and you fear believing anything inconvenient to your lifestyle and world view.
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jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Yeah, that was one of the two calendars.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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frako Member (Idle past 334 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
You worship your intelligence and that of others and you fear believing anything inconvenient to your lifestyle and world view. Dos that statement apply to every atheist cause i for example believe in global warming, though i keep my car on when im waiting for people contributing to co2 pollution event though i wouldn't need to id just have to endure a bit of heat or cold cause my ac wouldn't be running. Or i believe that smoking highly increases the risk of lung cancer and i still smoke ..... As inconvenient as those and similar things are i cant just wish them away if i deny their existence. There is no difference how inconvenient a magic sky daddy and his zombie son are if there is no evidence for them there is no point believing they exist. Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
How do you verify what's in those books?
I've been learning a lot about the Vatican that the average Catholic doesn't know because it's kept from them and the material has to be dug up from very old books.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
You worship your intelligence and that of others and you fear believing anything inconvenient to your lifestyle and world view.
You never cease to prove that you are an ass.You know nothing about me, but make these outlandish claims about me. I do not worship anything. I respect intelligent people and tend to respect and trust the judgement of experts in their fields. You know absolutely nothing about my lifestyle. Nothing you preach is any threat to me or my lifestyle. I may be a very moral person and you have no idea. You continue to promote this asinine, bullshit idea that anyone that is not a "Christian" is somehow defective and amoral. Well you can take a flying leap you self-righteous ass. I'd really like to compare our lifestyles and see which one of us lives a more giving, moral life. Then again you seem to have a skewed view about what is moral. I notice how you can't defend your use of the word "alive". Typical.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Fundies really love that mantra, don't they? Of course, having to fend for yourself and take responsibility for your actions is much more convenient than having a Sky Daddy to do it for you and give you a Get Out of Hell Free card.
... you fear believing anything inconvenient to your lifestyle and world view.
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scienceishonesty Member (Idle past 3727 days) Posts: 80 Joined: |
But if the Bible is true shouldn't archeology help to back it up? How can honesty be in the picture if something is just dogmatically taken as truth regardless of what the evidence points to?
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scienceishonesty Member (Idle past 3727 days) Posts: 80 Joined: |
Ah yes, and the next thing you're going to say is that there really was no such thing as indulgences. I'm not really interested in pursuing this debate because Protestantism doesn't need defending. The history of why it emerged though was chiefly because the common people wanted to read the Bible in their own language so that they could see for themselves what the "will of God" was rather than the Catholic Clergy interpreting it for them. The Waldensians, Huguenots, etc etc were all just common folk wanting to teach the Bible in their own way and were persecuted ruthlessly by the Catholic Church. But of course, that is all just fantasy right?
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scienceishonesty Member (Idle past 3727 days) Posts: 80 Joined: |
It's not impossible I suppose but it's also very improbable and it's an idea that isn't falsifiable. Why worry about it if there's no evidence? Why waste our time?
I think the question you need to ask yourself is: "do I really know that Jesus is alive and well interceding in Heaven for humanity?". But ask yourself honestly and when you want to utter "I just know for a fact" ask yourself how, how do you know. Edited by scienceishonesty, : No reason given. Edited by scienceishonesty, : No reason given. Edited by scienceishonesty, : No reason given. Edited by scienceishonesty, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
everyone who clings on to a belief system that has no evidence are wanting to believe they have good reason to believe what it is they want to believe, but if they really ask themselves "do I really know", they will find the answer and that answer is that they don't. I always knew for sure in the back of my mind that I didn't really know for sure, I just didn't want to admit it because I wanted it to be true. Now that I am not in a position where I believe in something just because I want to, it really makes a difference in how I look at things. I hope you don't think this is the way Christians in general believe. I would never say I "have no evidence" for what I believe, the witness evidence of the Bible plus all the witnesses down the centuries plus my own personal experiences add up to lots of evidence. And I would never say it's about what I WANT to believe, it never was, it was a struggle in the beginning between things I'd formerly thought and what I was learning from Biblical revelation, and at one point I even complained to God about having to agree with certain Christians I'd formerly disliked. And I WOULD say that I "know for sure" what I believe, that God is real, that the Biblical witness is true and so on. When scripture says "Faith is the substance of things unseen and the evidence of things hoped for" that describes my faith -- it's a lot more substantive thing than unbelievers think. This is why I have to assume you only had a superficial intellectual assent type belief rather than true faith. That's not meant as an insult, just a description, and if that's true it's still possible for you to come to a REAL faith and be born again.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined:
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How do you verify what's in those books? How do you verify what's in any books, meaning books that claim to report historical facts? You assess the attitude of the writer, you assess the totality of different witnesses against each other, you assess the information against other information you have, you assess what others say about the writer, you assess the source of the approval or the criticism, you assess the logic of the thinking, you check the bibliography for other sources and if possible check them out, you take notes on what still needs verification. The more you read the more you can make such assessments. You'll never have 100% certainty about anything but if you can't trust other human beings to be honestly and sincerely reporting what they know, unless you have good reason not to, then you are never going to have any knowledge at all. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
So how come your verification is so different from everybody else's?
You assess the attitude of the writer, you assess the totality of different witnesses against each other, you assess the information against other information you have, you assess what others say about the writer, you assess the source of the approval or the criticism, you assess the logic of the thinking, you check the bibliography for other sources and if possible check them out, you take notes on what still needs verification. The more you read the more you can make such assessments.
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scienceishonesty Member (Idle past 3727 days) Posts: 80 Joined: |
Faith, but it is precisely why Christians (including yourself) believe what they do, just like every other religion in the world. If you grew up in India you'd probably be Hindu right now, if you grew up in Iran you'd probably be Muslim, an and if you grew up in China you'd probably be Buddhist --- all of these faiths are convinced that they are following the "right" creator or belief system.
All you have to do is evaluate other religions objectively and it's easy to recognize how deceived they really are. But of course, since you have thoroughly and unwaveringly convinced yourself that you in fact know the "real truth", you will proceed to comfort yourself with this thought and enjoy your special connection with God whilst watching so many others miss out. When the blinders are on, they will stay on unless you remove them. That happens by asking yourself a simple question: Do I really know with 100% intellectual certainty that my God and my belief system is right? If your answer is yes, then you're not being honest with yourself. I was a very devout Christian for many, many years, despite your convenient and all too predictable "well your faith probably wasn't strong enough". But there was nothing artificial about it for me. I just knew and tried to convince others with every persuasive argument that I could -- because after all, their souls are at stake too! The evidence for me was: a personal deep belief, an alliance with creationist talking points that were at least "equally scientifically valid interpretations" compared to the mainstream and the "archeological evidence" to support the historicity of the Bible. The only way I could actually look at the second two with objectiveness (an honest willingness to find out what the truth really is) was by admitting that I did not know for 100% certainty that my faith was the "true" one. And since I'm not "blessed" with being schizophrenic, I never experienced the "Holy Spirit" talking to me or other spiritual voices affirming in some personal powerful way the presence of the Lord in my life. Perhaps this helped me to be intellectually honest with myself and ask the tough questions that most people never want to ask themselves. As far as the definition of "faith" from the Bible, I'm fully aware of what it says. You'd be hard pressed to find someone with as much exposure as me when it comes to the Bible and theology. Do you believe that the first four books of the Bible were written by the Prophet Moses, literally? Edited by scienceishonesty, : No reason given. Edited by scienceishonesty, : No reason given.
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