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Author Topic:   Ebola
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 111 (738633)
10-13-2014 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
10-13-2014 9:44 AM


but now Ebola seems to breaking through health measures in a number of different countries, including first world countries like the US and Spain.
I haven't heard anything about the procedures used at Texas Presbyterian that inspires even the tiniest confidence. On the other hand, nobody got infected at Emory in Atlanta or during transport during the handling of two separate cases.
I'm more than willing to accept the conclusion that Atlantans are more competent than Texans. For now I think it is reasonable to suspect a breach in security measures.
http://www.weather.com/...urse-tests-positive-ebola-20141012
quote:
Dr. Tom Frieden, head of the CDC, said the diagnosis showed that there was a breach of safety protocol and that all of the health care workers who treated Duncan are now thought to have been exposed.
Several other hospitals have treated Ebola patients without workers contracting the disease, including Emory Hospital in Atlanta, Forbes reports.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Percy, posted 10-13-2014 9:44 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 111 (738636)
10-13-2014 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by 1.61803
10-13-2014 10:05 AM


I too suspect it is spread easier than what we have been led to believe
Do you have any particular suspicion about how the virus might be transmitted? In my mind the variables would be 1) during which phases the virus could be transmitted? 2) can it be transmitted without direct contact from a sick person?
There is no need to suspect anything with respect to item 1 because we know that the nurse treated a sick person.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by 1.61803, posted 10-13-2014 10:05 AM 1.61803 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by 1.61803, posted 10-13-2014 1:21 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 111 (738645)
10-13-2014 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by 1.61803
10-13-2014 1:21 PM


Re: ignorance and complacency=infection
I believe infected body fluids as has been established, however it seems this virus may be very tenacious requiring only the most miniscule and brief direct contact to be successfully transmitted. Just speculation.
I'm not sure we've been told anything different than what you describe.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by 1.61803, posted 10-13-2014 1:21 PM 1.61803 has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 111 (738740)
10-15-2014 12:32 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Jon
10-14-2014 7:24 PM


Re: Hard to Get - Harder to Get Rid Of
The disease has a high mortality rate and I think that is what makes it a worrisome issue, not the technicalities on how it is spread.
I'm quite sure you are incorrect. Given the high fatality rate, if Ebola were to mutate to the point where the virus could be transferred via air, we would have no hope of stopping the spread of Ebola before half of us (everyone in the world) were dead.
On the other hand, if Ebola was spread only through sharing needles and having unprotected sex with a symptomatic patient, the viruses high fatality rate would result in the virus becoming self defeating.
It is in fact the combination of relatively easy transmission and high fatality rate that make Ebola so dangerous. If it became possible to catch Ebola from an asymptomatic patient, that would present a substantial additional danger.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Jon, posted 10-14-2014 7:24 PM Jon has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Dr Jack, posted 10-15-2014 5:51 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 29 of 111 (738793)
10-16-2014 12:51 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Dr Jack
10-15-2014 5:51 AM


Re: Hard to Get - Harder to Get Rid Of
Ebola is not relatively easy to transmit; it transmits comparatively poorly - with a r0 of around 2
I gave some examples of what would be easy and hard transmissions. I don't see how you can dismiss a remark about 'relative' ease of transmission by citing an absolute number.
Regarding an r0 of 2.0. Not all that comforting:
Flu Transmission
quote:
Some analyses report that influenza typically has a transmission rate of about 10. But others suggest that flu is not as highly transmissible in a community setting as has been imagined. The R0 for the 1918 pandemic was estimated to be only 1.8 in one study, while the 1918 pandemic strain's R0 was estimated at around 2 by another estimate.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Dr Jack, posted 10-15-2014 5:51 AM Dr Jack has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 30 of 111 (738795)
10-16-2014 1:01 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Jon
10-16-2014 12:40 AM


Re: The Big Questions
duplicate
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Jon, posted 10-16-2014 12:40 AM Jon has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 31 of 111 (738796)
10-16-2014 1:02 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Jon
10-16-2014 12:40 AM


Re: The Big Questions
But it is very different from the sorts of animals typically hunted in the Midwest.
Huh? I wonder why those Africans wouldn't hunt the same kind of animals that are indigenous to the American midwest?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Jon, posted 10-16-2014 12:40 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Jon, posted 10-16-2014 1:44 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 32 of 111 (738797)
10-16-2014 1:16 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Jon
10-16-2014 12:46 AM


Re: Stupidity is Spreading Ebola
When an entire region is plagued by a deadly virus, it is okay to fly people in and out of that region.
I know the answer. Do you?
I hear ya bro. Screw flying in a bunch of soldiers, doctors, and other health workers. Let's just blow up the Suez Canal, isolate Africa from everywhere else, and let them give Ebola to each other. I'm sure we can keep Ebola to just the one continent forever if we do the right thing.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Jon, posted 10-16-2014 12:46 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Jon, posted 10-16-2014 1:57 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 38 of 111 (738815)
10-16-2014 7:48 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Jon
10-16-2014 1:57 AM


Re: Stupidity is Spreading Ebola
Sorry. sfs covered everything.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Jon, posted 10-16-2014 1:57 AM Jon has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 61 of 111 (738874)
10-16-2014 10:34 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by sfs
10-16-2014 3:33 PM


Re: Hard to Get - Harder to Get Rid Of
You don't pass antibodies to your descendants.
Cannot moms pass antibodies to their unborn children? I know that other posters seem to be talking about some kind of inheritance, but that would be some kind of Lamarckian nonsense.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by sfs, posted 10-16-2014 3:33 PM sfs has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by sfs, posted 10-17-2014 12:01 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied
 Message 70 by Taq, posted 10-17-2014 3:50 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 69 of 111 (738899)
10-17-2014 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by RAZD
10-17-2014 7:45 AM


Re: Hard to Get - Harder to Get Rid Of
removed
Edited by NoNukes, : i was wrong

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by RAZD, posted 10-17-2014 7:45 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 73 of 111 (738919)
10-17-2014 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Jon
10-16-2014 1:44 AM


Re: The Big Questions
You should wonder why they don't eat meat from domesticated animals known to be safe.
As has been pointed out, people all of the world eat something other than domesticated animals. I don't need to wonder why people without access to domesticated animals don't eat domesticated animals.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Jon, posted 10-16-2014 1:44 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Jon, posted 10-19-2014 9:01 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 74 of 111 (738922)
10-17-2014 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Percy
10-15-2014 10:56 AM


So they double-glove, but I don't understand how that solves the problem. You pull the right one off, then contaminate the one underneath it when you pull the left one off. Same problem.
Double gloving provides protection during the exposure even (while working with patients). At removal time, the idea is to remove the gloves without transferring any contamination to the skin.
The interior side of the interior glove can be assumed to be uncontaminated. If your de-gloving procedure involves contacting that only that surface of a glove with your bare hand, you should be able to remove that second glove without contaminating either hand, by stick your thumb under that glove and turning the glove inside out as you remove it. The procedure would require a high level of care. The potential for error seems extremely high. You might even put on a clean, loose fitting glove on your bare hand before removing that second glove.
Using some kind of glove puller for the interior gloves does seem to be a safer option.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Percy, posted 10-15-2014 10:56 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by Taq, posted 10-17-2014 5:27 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 76 of 111 (738925)
10-17-2014 5:40 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Taq
10-17-2014 5:27 PM


Decontaminating with something as simple as 70% ethanol before attempting to remove the gloves would seem to be the safest of all
I suppose so. My experience is with radioactive contamination suits. Our innermost gloves were just plain cotton.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Taq, posted 10-17-2014 5:27 PM Taq has not replied

  
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