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You tend to think I am scared of one day not existing, when that is not true.
Hey, you are the one who said that you don't care to think of yourself as a "robot" and ceasing to exist after your body dies.
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How can fear exist if consciousness were to evaporate into nothingness? There is nothing to fear in that.
Yet, you prefer to not think that this might be the case. I assume you prefer to believe in something else because you are uncomfortable with "nothingness".
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And please take note, the supernatural, which God is a part of if he exists, is also a part of nature.
Um, no, that is contradictory.
Supernatural means "above nature", and used in in this way means "outside nature". If God is detectable by our senses, God is therefore natural, not supernatural.
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I agree one hundred percent, but my argument rests on the atheistic evolutionary perspective, not a theistic one.
1) I'm not an Atheist.
2) My acceptance of the ToE has nothing at all with the rejection of theism.
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An atheistic believer in evolution has a million reasons to justify why his body exists, but, correct me if I am wrong, absolutely none to explain his individuality among other beings.
Who cares? What does this have to do with the observence of a change of allele frequencies in a population over time?
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I justify this as follows: Why do you not have a long tongue and live in a swamp with other frogs, instead of having taken up residence in a human body? Notice the difference between "you" and "your body" in the question. Every human being has a complex set of processes firing millions of times every second in their brains. What makes it that _your_ consciousness rules over these processes and resides there instead of in one of the other beings, and at this particular moment in time?
I don't think there is any difference at all between brain activity and consciousness. In other words, the brain produces consciousness. Do you have any evidence that consciousness exists independently from the neurobiology of the brain?
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In your belief, if your mother had waited 31 days before deciding to have you, would _you_ exist?
No, I wouldn't, because that egg and sperm that combined to make me would not have met. What's so amazing about that?
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You stand corrected, the very basis of evolution is the mutation of the reproductive genome, this requires an error in replication, and this error is a product of chance unless one is in a laboratory.
and SELECTION. SELECTION. You forgot to absorb what I explained about SELECTION.
Selection, as in selecting something, is not random, but selective.
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Second, this was entirely off my point. Lets get back to it. My existence and my body are two completely different things. So are yours.
Really? You have evidence of this? Or do you simply assert it without evidence?
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My body was _sure_ to be born as my mother had to have the baby come out. This was 100% sure even if my body was stillborn. A body exited my mother. But why _me_?
Because that particular sperm from your father and that particular egg from your mother happened to combine. It's simple, really.
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Millions of babies are born all the time, each one an individual personality. Each one infused with the something that makes them alive and feeling.
That's called metabolism.
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One step further, when someone dies, it is evident that something about the body is different. No one is interested in marrying and starting a family with a beautiful dead body. The spark of life must be there. That is what sets me apart from my body and you apart from yours. Your brain contains your memories, but _you_ are consciousness itself.
OK, take away someone's brain.
Now, show me their consciousness.
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You are correct that gut feeling does not play a role in the conclusions science makes. Let me break it down and say it then, you may not believe in God because by first and foremost concluding arrogantly that he probably does not exist (or if you do leave some chance that he may exist, this statement doesn't apply to you).
Look, why do you care if I believe in God or not, and what does this belief have to do with the change in allele frequencies in a population over time?
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"Hey dad, I know you don't really exist, in fact I dislike the very thought that you may exist, but can I have my allowance now?" No, leave some chance that he may be a kinder God than you ever dreamed, leave some room in your science that he may very well have a place in the Universe, and try to find evidence in the way that God communicates it, and then you will have practical scientific experience of this God who eludes you so.
Science is a lot like plumbing.
Neither science nor plumbing consider God, yet they both work just fine without including God.
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This has been my experience which I can in no way communicate to you because one cannot fathom the idea of God until one has learned to give him a try, see the evidence which most are too proud to try and see, and once you have this, learn to trust him, and eventually love him as you'd love your parents or greater.
Ok, that's a very nice sermon and example of circular reasoning, but what does this have to do with the change in allele frequencies in a population over time?
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Look, man, I may have misconceptions about evolution, even though it was my greatest area of interest throughout high school and much of college (Virginia Tech tho we's just a bunch o country bumpkins aint we, uhhuh), but think about this: your stating that I have them implies you have none.
Hardly. It just means that I am pretty sure you do, as I have pointed out to you. I certainly have some misconceptions, and I never said I didn't. I would hope that someone wouold point them out to me.
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This pride in knowing a little bit more than your average fellow implies that real knowledge eludes you. The more one knows, the more one realizes that one does not know. Einstein would have concurred.
And yet, you are perfectly willing to claim all sorts of things as true without evidence, and you are also willing to reject the evidence for Evolution seemingly based upon your religious preference that it not be reality.
Maybe you might apply your sage advice to yourself.
I am actually pretty sure that I know quite a bit more about this subject than the average person, but quite a lot less than many of my fellow posters here.
The truth is, there's lots that all of us don't know. However, I have confidence that I have a pretty firm understanding of how science is done and the evidence for evolution. I'm also pretty sure, and explained how, you do not have such a firm grasp of either subject. What you don't know about science and evolution is a lot.
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I'll let bygones be bygones before this turns into Jerry Springer. Let's quit the accusatory tone of our discussions (me too) and get down to the science of it.
Hmm, I don't recall having any kind of "tone" at all.
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Have many of you considered that God can be the most cool, accepting, and kind friend? That he has the best sense of humor, is the nicest of the nice, the biggest party-animal, the biggest woman chaser, the most honorable, the most fun, and that he likes his black and tan just a bit heavy on the Guinness?
God is the biggest woman chaser? Women chasing is a good, moral, godly thing to do? Why don't you ask some women how much they like women chasers?
So, God is male, then? And a fratboy?
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"Evolution is a 'theory', just like gravity. If you don't like it, go jump off a bridge."
[This message has been edited by schrafinator, 12-16-2003]
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