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Author Topic:   God is evil if He has miracles and does not use them.
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 121 of 390 (750522)
02-17-2015 9:51 AM
Reply to: Message 117 by Stile
02-17-2015 8:44 AM


Re: evil is slippery
Stile writes:
jar writes:
Stile writes:
However, if you did all these things, then stood in the alley and watched while she was raped, I would say you did nothing.
This is more akin to an all powerful God, don't you think?
Well no, I do not think that.
You are always entitled to your opinion. Would you care to explain it and give your reasoning?
It's okay if you don't want to. I'm not here to force anyone to talk about anything they're uncomfortable with.
Well I have given my reasoning repeatedly in this thread but I will certainly do so for you yet again if necessary.
Evil is a human concept but whether or not something is evil depends on the unique definitions of a given era, society, culture.
Even if you expand that to claim is is a property of intelligence it still depend on the unique definitions of the population in question. What is evil in one instance may not be evil in a different instance, society, era or culture
Since whether something is evil or not evil depends on the mores of a given instance, society, era or culture. Members of that particular society, era or culture may consider a particular instance as evil but members of a different society, era or culture may not see the same instance as evil.
A God, if there is a god, is not a member of any given society, era or culture and so the norms of any given society, era or culture do not apply.
If you are a member of a culture that believes it is necessary for your daughter to get raped for there to be a successful harvest then watching your daughter getting raped is not evil but rather noble.
You (Stile) may well consider the above example as evil but that is only through the lens of your personal definition of what is evil and not a characteristic of the act itself.
Need I expand or explain anything more for you or is that sufficient?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by Stile, posted 02-17-2015 8:44 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 149 by Stile, posted 02-23-2015 9:46 AM jar has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 122 of 390 (750525)
02-17-2015 11:21 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by AZPaul3
02-14-2015 1:22 PM


Re: evil is slippery
AZPaul3 writes:
Is god evil or immoral for allowing such to happen if he has the power to stop it?
As I said, it isn't always possible to "stop" it without starting something else. Also, both "evil" and "immoral" are subjective, so the topic question itself has only subjective answers.
AZPaul3 writes:
And, yes, the grass won't mind at all.
They used to say that the slaves didn't mind having their children taken away from them and sold. You make my case, with your "evil" uncaring attitude toward the grass.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by AZPaul3, posted 02-14-2015 1:22 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by AZPaul3, posted 02-17-2015 2:57 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 123 of 390 (750526)
02-17-2015 11:32 AM
Reply to: Message 118 by Stile
02-17-2015 8:51 AM


Re: evil is slippery
Stile writes:
In fact, I'm talking about 1 very specific, restricted event. I'm wondering why it's seems so difficult for some people to agree with such a thing.
I did address it, in Message 105:
quote:
He can't do what's best for the rape victim and what's best for the rapist at the same time.
Your proviso that, "There are no hidden or unforeseen complications to this example," is pure contrivance. There are always unforeseen complications, whether you choose to turn a blind eye to them or not.
You might as well be saying, "Assuming that I'm right, one plus one equals three." You're building in an "I win" clause.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by Stile, posted 02-17-2015 8:51 AM Stile has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 124 of 390 (750527)
02-17-2015 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by frako
02-14-2015 12:32 PM


Re: evil is slippery
frako writes:
Why not just give everybody the ability of photosynthesis, no one has to eat anyone to survive problems solved.
If nothing dies, you're introducing problems of over-population.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by frako, posted 02-14-2015 12:32 PM frako has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by frako, posted 02-17-2015 12:37 PM ringo has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 125 of 390 (750531)
02-17-2015 12:20 PM


Can there be an Evil God?
While so far I have not found any of the arguments supposed to show evil gods in this thread convincing, I can certainly imagine evil gods.
Some popular depictions of Satan might be considered as evil even if not Biblical, and the God marketed by Calvin certainly qualifies as evil under almost any culture, era or society. There are gods like Apep who embodied chaos and so might with considerable stretching of definitions be considered evil.
The God of Calvin though is IMHO the clearest example of evil, a God with foreknowledge that creates critters that are doomed to eternal punishment.
But here as so often is the case, we find people that do not think the God of Calvin is evil.
I fear that shows that evil really is simply a human construct and totally unrelated to facts or reality.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by Stile, posted 02-23-2015 9:51 AM jar has replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 126 of 390 (750535)
02-17-2015 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by ringo
02-17-2015 11:34 AM


Re: evil is slippery
If nothing dies, you're introducing problems of over-population.
Well just give everything an exact amount of time before they die like say every human dies at 100 years of age and becomes fertile at 50 able to produce 2 children with a random exception of 3 depending on how many die by accident. Also embed an epilepsy trigger whenever anyone wants to act on the idea of killing someone.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by ringo, posted 02-17-2015 11:34 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-17-2015 2:46 PM frako has replied
 Message 132 by ringo, posted 02-18-2015 10:52 AM frako has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 127 of 390 (750543)
02-17-2015 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by frako
02-17-2015 12:37 PM


Re: evil is slippery
Well just give everything an exact amount of time before they die like say every human dies at 100 years of age and becomes fertile at 50 able to produce 2 children with a random exception of 3 depending on how many die by accident. Also embed an epilepsy trigger whenever anyone wants to act on the idea of killing someone.
Just a few more tweaks and you've got yourself the Garden of Eden...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by frako, posted 02-17-2015 12:37 PM frako has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by frako, posted 02-17-2015 5:55 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8564
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 128 of 390 (750544)
02-17-2015 2:57 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by ringo
02-17-2015 11:21 AM


Re: evil is slippery
As I said, it isn't always possible to "stop" it without starting something else.
In that case the answer is he can't. Styles gets to cut the wholie spook some slack.
Also, both "evil" and "immoral" are subjective, so the topic question itself has only subjective answers.
Addressed in my post.
They used to say that the slaves didn't mind having their children taken away from them and sold.
I've never heard They say that. If he did then he's an idiot.
You make my case, with your "evil" uncaring attitude toward the grass.
I had nothing to do with making the various types of grass so delicious. Talk to the groundskeeper.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by ringo, posted 02-17-2015 11:21 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by ringo, posted 02-18-2015 10:55 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 129 of 390 (750545)
02-17-2015 5:55 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by New Cat's Eye
02-17-2015 2:46 PM


Re: evil is slippery
Just a few more tweaks and you've got yourself the Garden of Eden...
I just hope he remembers to hide that apple tree this time. And that the walking snake is no where in sight.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-17-2015 2:46 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-17-2015 6:47 PM frako has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 130 of 390 (750546)
02-17-2015 6:47 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by frako
02-17-2015 5:55 PM


Re: evil is slippery
I just hope he remembers to hide that apple tree this time. And that the walking snake is no where in sight.
That, or program his robots better
Did you know that the Bible never actually says that its an apple? Its just fruit.
I don't even know where the whole apple thing came from...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by frako, posted 02-17-2015 5:55 PM frako has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by Jon, posted 02-17-2015 9:09 PM New Cat's Eye has seen this message but not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 131 of 390 (750548)
02-17-2015 9:09 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by New Cat's Eye
02-17-2015 6:47 PM


Re: evil is slippery
I don't even know where the whole apple thing came from...
quote:
Wikipedia on the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil:
In Western Christian art, the fruit of the tree is commonly depicted as the apple, which originated in central Asia. This depiction may have originated as a Latin pun: by eating the malum (apple), Eve contracted mālum (evil). It is also possible that this depiction originated simply because of the religious painters' artistic licence.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-17-2015 6:47 PM New Cat's Eye has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 132 of 390 (750564)
02-18-2015 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 126 by frako
02-17-2015 12:37 PM


Re: evil is slippery
frako writes:
Well just give everything an exact amount of time before they die like say every human dies at 100 years of age....
What do you do with the dead bodies? With the present system, they're eaten by other life forms but that's supposedly "evil".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by frako, posted 02-17-2015 12:37 PM frako has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by frako, posted 02-18-2015 11:58 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 133 of 390 (750565)
02-18-2015 10:55 AM
Reply to: Message 128 by AZPaul3
02-17-2015 2:57 PM


Re: evil is slippery
AZPaul3 writes:
In that case the answer is he can't.
That's what I said. There are some things that can't be done simultaneously even if you are omnipotent.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by AZPaul3, posted 02-17-2015 2:57 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by AZPaul3, posted 02-18-2015 2:41 PM ringo has replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 134 of 390 (750572)
02-18-2015 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 132 by ringo
02-18-2015 10:52 AM


Re: evil is slippery
What do you do with the dead bodies? With the present system, they're eaten by other life forms but that's supposedly "evil".
They spontaneously combust moments after death the ashes are used as fertilizer.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by ringo, posted 02-18-2015 10:52 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-18-2015 12:02 PM frako has not replied
 Message 136 by ringo, posted 02-18-2015 12:03 PM frako has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 135 of 390 (750574)
02-18-2015 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by frako
02-18-2015 11:58 AM


Re: evil is slippery
They spontaneously combust moments after death the ashes are used as fertilizer.
I think her breathing has stopped... Yup, grandma is dead.
SHIT, RUN SHE'S ON FIRE!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by frako, posted 02-18-2015 11:58 AM frako has not replied

  
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