Is it time to consider compulsory vaccinations?

Faith responds to me:

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Yes, that's all the politically correct stuff.

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Huh? Are you saying that biochemistry is political? That if you're a Republican, ethyl mercury doesn't actually get metabolized but if you're a Democrat, it is?Are you saying that diseases pay attention to your political affiliation and will stay away if you decide to not get vaccinated until later?Vaccinations are worthless if you are already sick. Do you agree with that statement? If so, then what is the justification to delay vaccination when it is unnecessary to wait?

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Watch the film.

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See my previous response. Your film confuses ethyl mercury for three other forms of mercury. Why do you think that ethyl mercury behaves the same as those other forms? Is that another "politically correct" thing? Ethyl mercury behaves differently in liberals than it does in conservatives?

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of course there are reasons for the use of the ingredients but believe it or not they are NOT testing their safety

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That is simply false. On the contrary, vaccines are some of the most tested medicines we have precisely because they are expected to be commonly used. That's part of the reason that there isn't any money in vaccines. It is very expensive to develop a vaccine and get it through testing.

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people ARE having adverse reactrions to the MMR.

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Indeed, all medical treatment carries risk. You should not use any medicine if you are allergic to any of the ingredients. This is one of the reason that people with egg allergies should not receive most flu shots because they are incubated in chicken eggs.But as the Vaccination Injury Compensation Program shows in excruciating detail, in more than 2.5 BILLION doses of vaccine over the past dozen years, there have been fewer than 2,000 cases of compensatable injuries.So is there a risk to getting vaccinated? Yes. Might you die? Yes.But if you don't get vaccinated, your risk of dying is orders of magnitude more likely.A woman in Washington just died of complications due to the measles, Faith.Are you willing to accept responsibility for her death?

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So we poison people because the poison preserves or enhances the vaccine?

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Nothing in vaccines is poison. You are starting from a fallacious premise so your conclusion is unjustified.Serious question, Faith: Are you willing to accept responsibility for the death of people who don't get vaccinated?

FWIW, I am not disputing that a doctor has refused to vaccinate his children. I've seen at least one such story. I wasn't impressed by it. I'll post the link here just to show that there isn't some google conspiracy to hide the information.Anti-Vaccine Doctor: I Don’t Care If My Kids Make Others Gravely Sick (VIDEO) - TPM – Talking Points Memo

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An Arizona cardiologist told CNN in an interview that went online Monday that he doesn't care if his refusal to vaccinate his kids gives other children grave, preventable diseases.

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I’m not going to sacrifice the well-being of my child. My child is pure, Dr. Jack Wolfson said in the interview. It’s not my responsibility to be protecting their child.

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The doctor said that children should not avoid getting infections such as measels and mumps. "These are the rights of our children to get it," he told KPNX.

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As for your supposed turn to favor the anecdotes, that really isn't so sudden is it? Even during the early part of this thread you told us about your difficulty in dismissing them despite the evidence. You are now right where I expect you to be on any scientific question. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

You get one shot for DPT (Diphtheria, Pertussis, Tetanus) . Why is that being called three doses? Similarly for some of the others. It seems to me that the list is deliberately exaggerating, and attempting go generate unwarranted fear.And I probably get more sodium bicarbonate in my blood stream from brushing my teeth than from one of these vaccines.

In the last number of messages you've been putting out some pretty impressive data, but references are mighty scarce.Any discussion of this moderation message should go to General Discussion Of Moderation Procedures (aka 'The Whine List').Adminnemooseus

The safety of vaccination is secondary to the main issue of bodily integrity. The question is who has the right to decide what is allowed into your body. After we conclude that this right should remain with the individual we can only point to the overwhelming evidence that vaccination is a good idea.Allowing people to choose is the cost of being free yourself. If we choose to live in a vaccinated world then we should vaccinate ourselves and those we are responsible for. I think that this should remain the extent of our authority on the matter.

I agree. Only you can decide what is allowed in your body.However, once you decide not to vaccinate your kids, you don't then maintain the right to endanger me or my kids. I'm perfectly satisfied with California law on this subject. You don't get to enroll your kids in school or day care if you elect not to get shots. Your kids don't get to travel to and then return from regions where the disease is rampant unless your kids are vaccinated. If vaccination is required before your kids can attend college, then you and your kids make your choices and live with the consequences.

I used to accept this common idea that unvaccinated children would be carriers of disease. I no longer do and I can't fathom the logic. Who is to be threatened? The vaccinated ones? Why are they threatened? Aren't they safe? YOUR children? I assume they are vaccinated, what's the threat? Unvaccinated children by all reports I've heard are extremely healthy, fewer normal things like colds even. Anecdotal yes, shared among parents of unvaccinated children. What is the problem here? As for being a source of disease, vaccinated children can even get the disease, and right after being vaccinated can "shed" it anyway, making them far more likely to be disease sources.Besides, all this is imaginary. The only case of this is that one reported by Dr A of the child who got measles in Kenya, and I think travelers to such countries SHOULD be vaccinated, but whose fault is it that he wasn't> I say government agencies who should be enforcing it for travelers.And we do need to keep this is perspective: nobody is objecting to vaccination as such but to additives. Make it safe and nobody will object. First you have to learn that it really IS unsafe but you all here have your ears closed to that possibility.

No, they often combine many at once, even nine at a time. DPT counts as one shot, but it is three vaccines and some parents ask to have such bundles separated because more adverse reactions occur when multiple vaccines are administered at one time.I only mentioned bicarbonate of soda and monosodium glutamate because they are alien ingredients, they are among something like a dozen such normally nontoxic ingredients in the MMR combo, and since there are quite a few complaints about adverse reactions from that one I'm just wondering what may be causing them. When there is mercury or aluminum those are the usual suspects but the MMR has all these apparently benign additives and yet it causes problems for some.The film Trace Amounts if nothing else ought to make a person cautious about trusting both the producers of vaccines and the political machinery that supports them. It's focused on Mercury poisoning and from sources besides vaccines, but it's very convincing that it causes autism in susceptible children even while its supporters are telling us it's safe. They've cut down on mercury since it was exposed as dangerous in vaccines -- but the fact that it was ever pushed as safe ought to be an eyeopener about the people we're asked to trust. And still there is reason to be concerned about the multiplying of the trace amounts that remain. And then there's aluminum which has been increased.The list isn't exaggerating at all.The people who have suffered from vaccination, whose children have died or become autistic, along with other kinds of injuries, are very credible. To dismiss them as emotionally overwrought or as crackpots is extremely unfair. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Use just a bit of imagination. It is as if having chosen a new side you are now unable to even understand the arguments of people who disagree with you.People with compromised immune systems, people who are allergic to the vaccine and cannot be vaccinated, people for whom vaccination provides less than complete protection, people who are too young to vaccinate, people who were vaccinated and who may be due for a booster, unborn children, elderly people, and of course other people who won't immunize for reasons varying from compelling to just plain selfish and/or ignorant. Again that's not the limit of cases. That's the case we discussed. And again it is not simply a matter of what patient is patient zero. Once the disease gets initiated, the rest of the unvaccinated people are disease vectors to spread the disease. Without them, the rest of us, including those were vaccinated but not successfully are at greater risk. It's as if you want to look at only the match (patient zero) but ignore the spilled kerosene (the population of people who should have been vaccinated).Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

The objections are nonsense. All you are able to do is cite some movie which cites some crackpots. You cannot come close to making a case.

I'm sure you sincerely believe all that but it really is just current propaganda and there is plenty of reason to question a lot of it. Yes there are poisons in vaccines. They took MOST mercury out of them when its danger was exposed but it had been called safe all those years autism was increasing and even trace amounts are dangerous when you are taking multiple doses of multiple vaccines all of which contain some. The movie shows that connection very clearly. And aluminum is also a poison. I wish you'd read some from the other side. And the movie clearly distinguishes between the mercury in fish and the mercury in vaccines.You can't take a single case of a death from measles and blame it on unvaccinated children. If that's the one I've heard about they don't even know if she died of measles, they merely found it in her system after she died, and they don't know its source anyway. THAT is scaremongering.No they are not testing their safety as they should.

watch the movie.,

Somr of these people are more likely to be sources of disease than the intentionally unvaccinated children. If there are ANY unvaccinated people in circulation that you don't worry about as carriers, why are you worried about the extremely healthy bunch that choose not to vaccinate? The immune-compromised children carry all kinds of contagious things anyway.

Right. The problem is that we cannot do diddly squat about most of those problems. We have to accept that there will be a small number of unvaccinated or vaccinated but susceptible people no matter what we do. We'll never be able, for example, to immunize new born children. Small numbers of un-vaccinated people can be protected by the herd immunization phenomenon. But if large numbers of people simply opt out, and the herd immunization factor disappears. If the opt out reason is bogus, that's even more of a tragedy. Really? Where would they get contagious diseases to pass onto you from? Your claim is asinine. A child getting chemo therapy is more likely to get sick from exposure to you then vice versa.Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

There's a thing called "herd immunity". Unless almost everyone is vaccinated, everyone is in danger. Well known phenomenon, observed in the Disney measles outbreak, and known to everyone who has a scintilla of a clue about how vaccination works.Guess you aren't in that group.Never occurred to you to find out. Faith's Fantasies (TM) are ever so much better than reality.