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Author | Topic: The Giant Pool Of Money. Implications | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
When you elect a cartoon character as President, you don't get much respect. Trump really scares me. I fear he could possible damage our nations standing in the world and isolate us from them. I expect that most nations will work around Trump as much as possible. It doesn't look like he really wants to DO anything anyway. He prefers to bluster about what he's going to do and then brag about what he did, with no substance between. The substance will be handled by more sensible people.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Generally speaking, lenders are more interested in having a constant income stream from the
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
This is an over-simplification but: Right-wingers tend to see government like a business whereas left-wingers see it more like a family. Is there a difference ideologically between how conservatives in general view the debt vs moderate/liberals in general? In a business you're only concerned about the bottom line. If you're not making (enough) money, you can just shut the business down and go elsewhere. In a family you do what needs doing, no matter what it costs. If you have to run up a crippling debt to get healthcare for the kids, you do it. You can't escape family.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Well, that's what Republicans do, and Democrats too, for the most part. But what Trump is doing is more like playing a video game by yelling at PacMan.
OK, so Trump tries to run the country like a business, correct? Phat writes:
How would that work with a nation? If the system crashes, what does that entail? How do you "start over"?
So if the debt ends up becoming unsustainable, won't he simply pull the plug and allow the system to crash so that we can all start over with a new system?
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
And the working class said, "Boo hoo."
Much of his support base came from a hollowed out, angry middle class that was being forced into becoming a lower working class.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
That's a typical capitalist attitude: Bill Gates works harder than you do; all you have to do is work a million times harder and you'll be as rich as Bill Gates.
The working class has a sour grapes jealousy over the success of some of their neighbors and sabotages any efforts of one of their own to do better than them. Phat writes:
What's wrong with encouraging a prosperous working class? Why make the working class something to escape from?
You really need to encourage a prosperous middle class rather than keep them down.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You haven't said why a disappearing middle class is not a healthy thing. Why is stepping on the working class "healthier" than raising them up?
I have nothing against helping a working class get ahead, but I am afraid that the middle class is disappearing and that this is not a healthy thing.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
That's what I'm asking you. Who is "hollowing out" the middle class?
Must it be a competitive thing? Between two classes? Phat writes:
How else can the middle class "get ahead"? I never mentioned suppressing the working class. Instead of propping up the middle class, like you want to do, why not just lift up the working class until they're almost middle class? Why not raise the middle by lifting the bottom?
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
quote:I disagree with a lot of things in that statement:
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Taq writes:
That's the attitude that got us into this situation: The other guy should pay. It would appear to me that it is the top 1% that need to contribute to the working class, not the middle class. It doesn't work. The 1% have more resources to avoid paying their share. And one of their main tactics is to turn the working class and the middle class against each other. They pay the politicians to "create good jobs" and at the same time to keep wages low and working conditions poor. Personally, I would rather pay the taxes myself and let the 1% keep all they can grasp.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
New cat's Eye writes:
What if you got sick and couldn't work?
My salary has increased substantially but I kept my bills the same - I'm financially secure.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
New cat's Eye writes:
We don't all have an inheritance.
Savings and disability. That'd last until my inheritance.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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New Cat's Eye writes:
But most people aren't. I'll rephrase: There is no such thing as financial security for most people.
People can be financially secure.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Taq writes:
Never mind how large the economic inequity is. There has always been economic inequity and the attitude has always been: let the people with the most money pay. Instead, why not give the money to the people who work for it so they can afford to pay?
How does that attitude result in the largest economic inequality seen in decades? Taq writes:
Because I'm a responsible citizen. I'll gladly pay for the services I use - and I could pay more if I was paid fairly for what I contribute. Why would I want to be beholden to some rich goober?
ringo writes:
Why? Personally, I would rather pay the taxes myself and let the 1% keep all they can grasp.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Taq writes:
But you're not pushing for more economic equality. Your pushing, it seems, a version of trickle-down economics where you inject money at the middle instead of at the top. You seem to be touting the status quo, which has escape from the working class as the only option for the working class.
How does pushing for more economic equality result in more inequity? Taq writes:
That's what I'm saying.
Why not raise the minimum wage so that people can actually live off of it? Why not increase subsidies for health care so that the working class isn't pouring such a large percentage of their income into health care? Taq writes:
I'm saying that propping up the middle class makes the working class worse off - because those things are not being done for the working class.
According to you, pushing for these things will only make economically inequality worse. Why?
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