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Author | Topic: Decline And Fall Of The American Empire | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
While that is correct it is also irrelevant to this discussion.
So the GDP is created by the workers, the bankers, the investors the overseas buyers... What about the parents and grandparents that stay home and watch kids? What about the teachers? How about the kids still in school learning how to be productive adults? What about the folk that served in our military but are now out and suffering from physical or mental wounds? How about the illegal migrants that come to plant and harvest the food that is produced?
Do those people also contribute to the creation of the Gross Domestic Product?
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Phat Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I would think that in some way they do. But how could it be measured?
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
So if they all contribute to creating the GDP, would it be reasonable to assume they deserve some share of the GDP?
For example, would it be reasonable to assume they have an equal right to use the domestic infrastructure, the roads, bridges, sidewalks, public transportation, broadcast radio & TV?
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Phat Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Of course. Dont people have this right?
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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So since you agree that they contributed to creating the Gross Domestic Product and that they deserve the right to share in what was produced by the Gross Domestic Product would it not also be reasonable to say that as a Nation we have a duty to see that they also share in some basic rights such as access to shelter, access to Health Care, access to education, access to support after they can no longer contribute to creating the GDP due to age, accident or sickness?
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
NoNukes writes:
Who said it had to be labor on the part of the seller? The "value" is set by whatever the buyer is willing to pay and his money is generated by labor.
If the buyer has to work himself into an early grave in order to purchase the wine, then the owner of that old wine still reaps an increase with essentially no labor on his own part. NoNukes writes:
Your example is invalid. Try another one.
Some value is derived from sources other than labor even if labor is used to purchase that value.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
The Attorney is part of society, along with the legislators and the judicial system.
Although an individual with a good Attorney can school society on the legalities. Society itself has no Attorney to look after their social interests.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
That's the point. There is "value" that can not be measured directly in dollars and cents. The standard economic indicators don't include the indirect contributions.
I read an article in The Atlantic that talked about the GDP as an outmoded measurement.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Your example is invalid. Try another one. My example is just fine for the purpose of showing that labor is not the source of all income and that other components make up GDP. Many transactions involve no labor at all. As for other examples, I've already given several. How about all income from interest as yet another. All income from any capital investment. And given that capital gains is a part of GDP, we don't have to wait until things are cashed out. Your theory is just as bankrupt as the one Phat originally stated. But at least he has the sense to figure out better. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
NoNukes writes:
Nope. The seller's income comes from the buyer, who gets it from labor.
My example is just fine for the purpose of showing that labor is not the source of all income and that other components make up GDP. NoNukes writes:
Where does the money for the interest come from?
How about all income from interest as yet another.
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Phat Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
The subject of money is appropriate for this thread since the science/fact/reality behind it is itself a fascinating yet disturbing sub-topic.
In my opinion, the Fall Of The American Empire will be punctuated by a major economic event. I can only hope that we are still able to stay on our computers and talk with one another when this event ultimately happens. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Nope. The seller's income comes from the buyer, who gets it from labor. 1) Not necessarily. Buyers need not be laborers. 2) The point is that the seller gets his money without his own labor. As does the trust fund baby, as does a person who sells stock in a company, as does a person who draws interest on money in a bank. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
That depends on what you call a "major economic event". There have been several booms and busts in my lifetime that the pundits refer to as major revents - but none of them had any effect on me. I seem to be swimming upstream, doing well when the economy is bad and worse when the economy is better. It seems to me that it's all relative.
In my opinion, the Fall Of The American Empire will be punctuated by a major economic event.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
NoNukes writes:
Even if they're not directly labourers, the money originates in labor. Jesse James didn't rob working people directly but he robbed the banks that stole the money from working people.
Not necessarily. Buyers need not be laborers. NoNukes writes:
That's not much of a point.
The point is that the seller gets his money without his own labor.
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Phat Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
a major economic event is when a majority of the people are directly affected. Not just in having less disposable income but in having no income.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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