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Author | Topic: Lots of big Public Opinion polls on immigration. "Open Borders" is even polled. | |||||||||||||||||||
LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2423 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
The issue of "Open Borders" is getting asked. A Harvard Harris poll thankfully made the much needed jump. This poll was of adults presented with questions that had 1 of 2 options
76% opposed Open Borders 24% supported But the same poll said: 36% favored allowing illegal immigrants to stay if they managed to into the country (the alternative was deportation and it got 64% support). 39% favored allowing women with children to stay if the got past the border (61% said to deport). So almost 40% favor something of an (my words) "Open Borders lite" policy. The same Harvard Harris poll did, however, display some hard core pro-deportation sentiment towards illegal immigrants in our country when we get around to seeing the answers to the survey after it offered the polled adults to choose from 2 options: The choice of inflicting "deportation" verses allowing the undocumented immigrants to wait for a trial. This was the disturbing part. Deportation of illegal/undocumented immigrants was chosen by 55% of the polled adults, and 45% chose to let the immigrants wait for a trial. (for undocumented women with children, we still saw 53% support for deportation verses 47% allowing the immigrants to wait for a trial). The Trump factor is no doubt responsible for the more hard core pro-deportation sentiment than we have seen in the past. Link to Harvard Harris June poll in link below. It has a direct PDF link. Poll: Overwhelming Support For President Trump Immigration Positions.... - The Last Refuge A CBS poll shows tougher pro-deportation views of the women and children.
quote: cbs_20180624_nation.pdf - Google Drive But the absolutely massive poll causes me to think the those polled were simply too exhausted to properly think through the options. This was already question 32 and the questions were a bit too long IMO (Considering how many questions there were). Things look much better for the pro immigration side when one looks at legal immigrants. This comprehensive Pew poll is very telling as this poll has a long history. Shifting Public Views on Legal Immigration Into the U.S. | Pew Research Center The June 5-12, 2018 poll has a major shift in favor of maintaining current immigration levels. Back in the 2001 the same Pew poll showed us that 53% of all Americans favored lowering the number of legal immigrants admitted per year while only 10% favored an increase. In 2006 only 15% of Republicans favored increasing the yearly amount of legal immigrants, with only slightly more Democrats (20%) saying the same. In 2006, 37% of Democrats and 43% of Republicans favored reducing the amount of legal immigrants per year. Now, in 2018 40% of Democrats favor yearly legal immigrant increases verses 16% favoring lowering the amount. Now, 22% of Republicans favor increasing the amount of legal immigrants with 33% favoring decreases. As recently as 2015, Pew said the only 25%% of Democrats supported increasing the yearly legal immigrants. Overall 32% polled (in a big poll of over 2000 people) in June of 2018 support increasing legal immigration, with just 24% favoring a reduction. 38% said keep it the same as now. ANOTHER WITNESS. This Gallop poll from June 1-13, 2018 backs up the Pew Poll plus shows us that nearly as many Americans as not support Sanctuary Cities (46% support while 50% oppose).
Immigration | Gallup Historical Trends
The Gallup poll is interesting in that is first asks people to choose from the exact same 3 options but then asks again with the adjective "LEGAL" added before the immigration noun. Without specifying that immigrants are "LEGAL" , 39% of those polled said to keep immigration levels the same, while 28% said to increase the levels, and 29% said to decrease yearly immigration. With the LEGAL adjective in this Gallup, the exact same 38% (like the Pew poll) said to keep yearly immigration levels the same), and 34% said to increase levels, with 25% saying to decrease yearly levels of immigration. Trump seems to have turned most against illegal immigration (though the level of support for sanctuary cities (46%) and support for letting successful border-crossing illegal immigrants stay (36%-39%) verses being deported is moving ever closer toward being a position held by half of the American society) , but (more numerous!) legal immigration has a much better odor than ever before among Americans. Open borders is even on the map. Trump was a strong supporter of open borders as recently as 2013 (I suspect he still does secretly), as we just found out. Flip-Flop? Three Years Ago, Trump Advocated Open Borders | Vanity Fair
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2423 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
Out of 1447 or 1448 people, there was a question about support for "Open Borders" on page 68.
Here were the "yes" answers by total (24.45%), gender, age, race, party, ideology, Clinton or Trump voters, education, income .
quote: The issue has gotten attention. Here are parts of three articles, which take this issue to consideration. One is from a good guy. The second is from a so-so sorta-good kinda guy. The third is from a downright creep. Here is the article from (what I would call) one of the "good guys"
quote: See the article for more. Here is another good guy
quote: Those are the good ones. Now the worst one you could possibly read. Here is an article from a real turd. This guy should be punched (not literally). This guy not only lies about the exact percentage of Democrats supporting Open Borders, but he actually seems to be a fear mongering type (while back patting himself for humanity and claiming to be an opponent of trolls and fear-mongers) It is a long article. There is a good bit between my quoted paragraphs, also after I stop quoting.
quote: He says it was only 32% of Democrats. The percentage of Democrats is 36% The June 2018 poll has almost 24.5% supporting Open Borders, and the opponents (65 and older only were 12% for Open Borders) are dropping dead fast. 43% of all 1448 people polled 18-34 support Open Borders. So at least 25% of everybody, in 2019, surely support Open Borders. I think that 34% of everybody 18-49 is for Open Borders It looks like less than 15% of 50+ year-old people support Open Borders. So 10% more under 50 seem to support Open Borders. That could be extrapolated in a way that could perhaps make Democrats 47% supportive if they are under 50. The poll does not go into that microscopic level of detail. Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given. Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given. Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2423 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
There were 1448 people polled.
380 were 18-34 years old 340 were 35-49 431 were 50-64 297 were 65 and older The numbers were striking: Only 35 of the 65+ age group were for open borders (11.784%) 262 against (88.2%) This is striking when you consider: 165 of the 380 18-34 year olds were for open borders (43.421%) 215 were against (just under 56.6%) THE OTHER 2 GROUPS: The 35-49 age group was an even 25% (exactly 25.0%) for open borders (85 out of 340) The 50-64 group was 71 out of 431 (16.473%) NUMBERS TO CONSIDER WHEN LOOKING AT DEATHS AND NEW ADULTS (18th birthday folks). The numbers are 1093 opposed and 354 for Open Borders. (the poll says 354 but the numbers add up to 356) There will be about 20 of the 88.2% Anti-Open-Borders group vanishing every year. There will be perhaps 22-23 of the 45% Pro-Open-Borders group entering adulthood every year. So a group 18-2 opposed will die every year and be replaced by a group 12-10 opposed. The net difference will be perhaps 6 less opposed and 8 more supportive (averaging 7). The average difference will only amount to 0.5% more support a year if the death/adulthood entry factor is considered. Only about 5% more support (30% instead of 25%) over 10 years (by 2028), but there are other factors to consider. One is that immigrants becoming newly sworn-in citizens could be a group that adds to the hypothetical 30% support. That would still not add a large amount of support to the hypothetical 2028 "30%" support level. The second factor is the possibility that Democrats will actually give the issue justice, which means the party argues the case for more immigration (and perhaps even Open Borders itself) thus ensuring higher support among all age groups. That would make the biggest difference since the debate is totally one-sided presently. Same-gender marriage was an example of an issue that got much higher support once more (younger especially) people were able to reduce the large mass opposing marriage equality. The equilibrium swung away from a critical mass of opposition, and there was a resulting run-away shift toward the other side ONCE ENOUGH BALANCE IN THE DEBATE ENSUED. (The amazing thing is that there is already a much larger difference among age groups than any racial group difference. It seems that Whites and Hispanics only differ by 38% against 21% support. A 17% difference. Compare that to the 43.4 support among 18-34 year-olds vs. 11.8% support among 65 plus year-old folks. A much larger 32% difference. Hispanics are capable of seeing their support go up if the Open Border issue might not have an "anti-American" stigma which probably deters many of them from taking a Pro-Open-Border position on the question.)
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2423 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
The polls show a (still) tough climate when it comes to supporting Open Borders
The article is titled: The Case for Opening Our Borders Democrats cannot have it both ways.If you oppose jailing and exiling people for crossing an invisible line, you must be in favor of significantly opening our borders. Fortunately, that’s fine. BY BRIANNA RENNIX MARCH 21 | APRIL 2019 ISSUE About 10 paragraphs into the long article, this was said:
quote: Glad there are people who are attempting to bridge the gap between where we should be and where we are now.
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2423 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
I am reading a book WHERE AMERICA STANDS 1997 by Michael Golay.
It was even worse than I thought. Only 7% wanted to increase immigration levels, while 61% wanted to decrease them. (That means that no more than 7% could possibly support "open borders", and it was probably closer to 5%) 50% wanted all immigration halted for 5 years. Most wanted all services cut off. 60% wanted national identification cards for the purpose of hurting immigrants. The ironic thing is that The Wall was pretty much the only anti-immigration policy that Americans opposed (and it was opposed by a massive 62%), perhaps because many anti-immigration folks saw it was largely irrelevant among the range of possible policy changes.
quote: A sidebar on page 136 was titled "Fortifying the Frontier"
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2423 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
Here is one with a clear question, and, at the very first glance, I don't like the results.
https://scottrasmussen.com/...rules-about-who-enters-country https://scottrasmussen.com/crosstabs-july-5-6-2/
quote: 32% of Democrats supported the "Anyone who wants to live ..." option. I admit that it looks like 79% oppose Open Borders, but this poll does not tell us what the polled folks think should be in the "rules". So there could be more support for open borders than the poll indicates. Another recent Rasmussen poll had 39% say there should be "open" "borders" for "anyone who wants to come here" who has no criminal record, while 53% opposed. "Generally speaking, which is better for the United Statesto tightly control who comes into the country or to open our borders to anyone who wants to come here as long as they are not a terrorist or a criminal?" Voters Want Strong Borders, Say Wall is Not ‘Immoral’ - Rasmussen Reports® The link has other questions asked to the sames folks who were 79% opposed to the principle that United States rules don't count. 63% opposed decriminalization, which might indicate the poll has a margin of error a bit in favor of the anti-immigration side. I say that because polls generally are more supportive of decriminalization (though not all are). So: We have a solid 21% who are for the right of immigrants to come no matter what the law says. We seem to have 39% who want to allow anybody to come as long as they get a clean record bill from border checkers. Only 53% oppose this, which seems amazing. I wonder if I am missing something. The glance does not look so bad as it looked when this post started out. Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.
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AdminPhat Inactive Member |
Im not promoting this hodgepodge collection of copy pasta. For one thing, you want to promote a thread and then you abandon it only to attempt to promote another. In addition, you still have the bad habit of lengthy cut & paste stats from the internet. Unless you can condense all 6 of your posts into one concise post that clearly and succinctly spells out what you want to talk about...including links that are not bare...I will not promote any more of your posts.
What happened to the other one that I did promote? I even tried to help you make it more understandable...but you simply abandoned it.
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2423 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
I feel like we need to compromise.
I will sacrifice this thread (don't lock it, con't don't promote it either), in favor of the other immigration thread (the one I just started). One issue I want to bring to the other thread: We need to appreciate this free poll from Rasmussen, because it has some amazing details. Rasmussen usually does not allow us to see the results. It has about 5 important questions on immigration, including the very clear question about open borders (the 79% to 21% poll above) - it was more of a statement of principle, but very much an open border question (however,there is more support for open borders than the 21% might indicate) https://scottrasmussen.com/crosstabs-july-5-6-2/ I almost want to subscribe to Rasmussen to see the details of the other polls. Look at the age details, indicating those who support the right for anybody to live here.
quote: But, look at a more detailed breakdown
quote: Yes, you saw that right Phat. Those born before 1946 were only 1% (actually 1 out of 43 is a bit more than 2%) supportive. There were 1001 polled. Also Blacks were overall 32% supportive of Open Borders, the most supportive of any group! Hispanics were only 30% supportive (I feel many are intimidated into opposing, due to attacks against their "patriotism") But Black independents were far more supportive than Black Democrats (44% verses 30%) Hispanic Democrats were the most supportive group (46% supportive of the "right" for anyone to immigrate), but Hispanic independents were 82% opposed! White Democrats were, disgracefully, 71% opposed. Sickening! Racist? It sure comes from the somewhere in the heart. Strong liberals were only 31% supportive, while "lean liberals" were 36% supportive. White Republicans were 6% supportive of immigration rights to anyone, while non-white Republicans were 20% supportive. Republicans were, overall, 7% supportive, and "strong conservatives" were also 7%. "Lean conservatives" were 9% supportive. Those who "strongly approve" of Trump's job performance actually 9% supportive of the "right" to immigrate! Moderates were 22% supportive, so there is no "big middle" opposition to the pro-immigration movement, relative to the respective support of the nation (and the left) overall. I am ashamed to say that my native Northeast is the least supportive (only 15% support the right). The South, of all places, is the most supportive of immigration rights: 26%. White liberals are jerks. White Democrats are jerks. (I almost feel like I need to leave the Democratic party to prove I am not simply (yet) another white racist!) (I have protested the racism of Democrats my whole life, so I at least have that in my favor) EDIT: Hispanics were, overall, 33% supportive of the "right" to for anybody immigrate. Asians were only 30%. Whites 16%. Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.
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