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Author | Topic: The Atheist Experience | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
That seems backwards. The less you have, the easier it should be to be Christlike. Christ didn't have much. ...I'm just saying that it will be a true challenge to be Christlike while making do with less and less in this life. Note that the widow who only had two mites had less trouble giving it up than the rich man.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
As I said, the less you have the less you worry about losing it. Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose. If you love something, let it go. We wouldn't have made up so many cliches about it if there wasn't a germ of truth to it. I confess that I wonder what it was that that old widow had that I lack. You're working too hard at being un-Christlike. Turn socialist and it will come naturally.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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This is the wrong thread to display how ignorant you are about evolution.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Isn't it the same thing?
Did the early believers in Acts focus more on Christ or more on an early form and attempt at socialism?
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
But you're making that up. I have never advocated that. I fear socialism only because I fear a loss of control, and being at the mercy of others. Edited by ringo, : No reason given.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
That's your comic-book version of socialism. We're talking about Jesus' version of socialism here.
True, but socialism goes against me making whatever I want or perceive that I need.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I have shown you otherwise. Look at Ananias and Sapphira. Look at the widow with two mites. Look at the widow who gave Elijah the last of her food. Not everybody is expected to give all they have. If so, show me otherwise. If you think Jesus' teaching doesn't apply to everybody, YOU need to show otherwise.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
I wish you would follow up once in a while and think things through instead of bringing up the same old same old over and over again.
Perhaps later.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
That's ironic. You put the source ahead of the message but you don't trust the source of the source.
I dont count on the accuracy of source material to allow me to pray.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
No. You said it. I was just pointing out that it was ironic.
Says you. Phat writes:
No you don't. You believe that the characters always existed. You assert that the characters always existed. But you have never made a substantive argument to back up your beliefs and assertions.
I argue (according to belief) that the characters always existed... Phat writes:
Evidence always trumps faith. See the story of Thomas.
...Faith vs Evidence.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
The first thing you need to understand is that, "I believe..." is not an argument.
What possible argument could I use? Phat writes:
Well, you're the one who rejects scripture, remember? I'm the one who has to keep pointing out to you what it actually says.
Scripture itself backs it up, but you likely question that source as well. Phat writes:
Where on earth do you get that nonsense? I'm asking YOU for an argument. You're not God.
In essence, you stand defiantly asking God Himself to give you a good argument and He is silent before you. Phat writes:
There is no enemy.
The enemy then whispers in your ear.... Phat writes:
Been there, done that, done it again and again and again. The T-shirt has been washed so many times it's almost disappeared. I would challenge you, however, to give me a good argument for why throwing the messenger away is rational. I've even given you an example to show that in real life YOU put the message before the messenger: You don't throw your bills away and worship the mailman. You know how stupid that would be.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
No, Ananias and Sapphira were not poor. They had land to sell.
These three examples were of the poorest of the poor. Phat writes:
I didn't ask you for your opinion. I already know what your opinion is. I asked you to back up your opinion using Jesus' words.
I dont think Jesus expects me to give all I have. Phat writes:
No I don't. It's in the Bible, in black and white. If you think that Jesus expects me to keep giving more away, you have a hard argument... (Note that I am not the one telling you to give more. I would accept your reasoning. But the question is, would Jesus accept your reasoning?)
Phat writes:
The Bible says what it says, whether I'm a believer or an unbeliever.
...especially since you are an unbeliever. Phat writes:
You're the believer. You tell me.
What is He gonna do to help me? Phat writes:
I'm not advocating that you should follow your leader. I'm just wondering why you don't.
You seem to advocate that a follower of Christ needs to willingly embrace a life of poverty.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
No. We do not know that.
We all know that God cannot lie. Phat writes:
It isn't a "technicality". It's the whole bloody point.
You seem hung up on one technicality concerning when and if Adam & Eve died or not. Phat writes:
You're grasping for a context that isn't there.
You simply are using scripture without understanding or believing the overall context. Phat writes:
Because you claim to believe in the author. How can you honestly pick and choose parts of the story to accept?
Why is it not ok for me to ignore parts of the book and yet you can chuck the belief in the author of the book while keeping the message?
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
What makes you think Jesus didn't take the text as written?
Keep in mind that when Jesus was tempted in the wilderness, the devil himself knew scripture, and attempted to use it against Jesus. I am careful to not just take the text as written using conventional logic, reason, and reality.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
The whole issue is that both Jesus and the devil quoted scripture exactly as it is, not in some voodoo interpretation like you seem to advocate. And notice that the devil's quotes and Jesus' quotes disagreed with each other - i.e. the Bible, taken as "one book", contradicts itself.
The whole issue was that it was the devil attempting to get Jesus to agree with the scripture as an easy way out of his trial.
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