|
Author
|
Topic: The Passion Of The Christ
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
|
Message 1 of 71 (88010)
02-22-2004 4:30 PM
|
|
|
As some of you may know, Mel Gibson has made a new movie. It is somewhat controversial, and as of this date, I have not yet seen it. Here is what http://www.passion-movie.com/english/ has to say about it: THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST is a vivid depiction of the last 12 hours of Jesus Christ's life.
Sometime around the year A.D. 30, in the Roman province of Palestine, an obscure Jewish carpenter named Jesus of Nazareth began to teach publicly and to proclaim the coming of a 'Kingdom of God.' For centuries, the Jewish people had expected the appearance of a promised deliverer known as the Messiah --a figure who would restore their ancient dignity, and free their sacred homeland from all evil and despair. In the minds of many, Jesus appeared to be this Messiah. Surrounded by a core group of twelve disciples, Jesus began to attract a massive following from among the common people of Galilee and Judea, who eventually praised him as their Messiah and King. However, Jesus also had many enemies in Jerusalem. The Sanhedrin, a governing senate composed of the leading Jewish priests and Pharisees, conspired to put Jesus to death.
With the aid of Judas Iscariot, a member of Jesus' own inner circle, the Sanhedrin succeeded in arresting Jesus, handing him over to the Roman secular authorities on unsubstantiated charges of treason against Rome. Although Jesus consistently maintained that his Kingdom was a heavenly and spiritual one, the Roman procurator Pontius Pilate, faced with the possibility of a riot, ordered that Jesus be taken outside the city and crucified as a common criminal. As the movie is coming out this Wednesday, I want to hear from some of you who either have seen it or have read reviews...biased and otherwise. Again, as always, Truth trumps Intelligence! 
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
Truth or Consequent?
Consequent: The thing that strikes me as odd about your overall argument is the passion that you bring to the table at trying to disprove any credibility for jesus Christ. I would be more understanding as to your insistance upon literal accuracy IF you were as zealous towards, say, a Star Trek movie. If you were to say that there is NO way that anti matter could fuel a ship based upon todays science. If you laughed at the possibility of dematerialization through transporters. Even if you pointed out some minor flaws such as tensile strength of materials based on Warp speed velocities! The thing is, the ONLY thing that you have a passion for bashing and shredding seems to be the question of whether God became man and visited this planet. You say Go read something. Your naive ignorance disgusts me. And I say, why so huffy? It appears that you are defending something that has already been defeated on this planet. The "I AM" Spirit that raises up in you and exalts human wisdom as a god. Of course, I still love you. You do not disgust me, but the spirit which runs your mind is a defeated punk.
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
Re: Truth or Consequent?
Consequent Atheist writes: Do you know how to read?
I read books on a regular basis. I am no scientist, but I manage to read many books on sociology and inner city life. I have a passion to help the kids who get in trouble and end up at the juvenile detention centers. It takes more than just the Bible to help them, but the relationships are the central focus. As believers, we are plugged in to a higher source, and the kids instinctively know that we care about their mental health and family values. 65% of them will go to prison if nobody cared. It takes more than a good education to help them, but I will concede that literacy is a plus for them. As for you and your views, I do not mean to belttle you. I will say, however, that you value human wisdom as the highest possible source of truth. I do not. [This message has been edited by Phatboy, 02-23-2004]
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
Re: The spirit of division
Consequent, I once again point out to you the fervant and zealous disregard you have for Jesus Christ, God Incarnate. If you died tomorrow, regardless of the intellectual claptrap which you believe, God would still love you enough to give you yet another chance to accept Him. If you mouthed your smug assertions to Him at that point, all of your humanistic evidence would be for naught. You Do have a right not to believe, but you are wasting your time trying to convince people that God is not real. I still love you, though!
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
|
|
Message 43 of 71 (88541)
02-25-2004 9:21 AM
|
Reply to: Message 26 by crashfrog
02-24-2004 2:48 AM
|
|
Legislation of Morality
crashfrog writes: The reason we atheists pick on the Bible is because we live in a culture where plenty of people are using it to try to tell us what to do. Crashfrog, at this point I will have to agree with you. We do not live in a theocracy, so for me to force you to believe in a set of morals, even if they WERE God ordained, is not constitutional. I am not one for legislation of morality, and at this point you as an atheist have won the argument. Perhaps the reason that you consistently push my credibility into a corner when we debate is to show me how atheists view a Judeo-Christian system of morality attempting to impose a theocracy on them. The core of this issue is even now as we speak in the Supreme Court. One side interprets the law as respectful of all views and that society(humans) determine the standard. The other side alleges "viewpoint discrimination" and states that their absolute truth, where "God" determines the standard, is being booted out of the process. If we as a people choose to govern based on our own human reasoning as the judge, so be it. As a Christian, I will continue my free speech rights to convince people of a better way to live where Gods Spirit guides human wisdom. Mel Gibson is doing the same thing with his film. We believe that Jesus is real! Anyhow, Froggie, I defer to you.... [This message has been edited by Phatboy, 02-25-2004]
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 26 by crashfrog, posted 02-24-2004 2:48 AM | | crashfrog has not replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
Re: CONSTANTINE’S SWORD
While I have not read this book as of yet, I did scan the reviews, and one stood out: Today's hatred is fueled by the very Christian Scriptures themselves. ***Carroll therefore invites today’s Catholics to call an unprecedentedly wide open Third Vatican Council, among other things, to admit that the Gospel of John got some things terribly wrong in exaggerating the importance of Jesus’s death on the cross of Golgotha and in making the Jews uniquely responsible for that death. The reason that the death on the cross is important is because it is this action that is central to the beliefs within Christianity that Jesus bore our sins and became the sacrifice for all. It is ludicrous to minimize the importance of this Holy act. What would the church do? Rewrite the book to be more P.C. ? Hardly. We will NOT have the scriptures reduced to the opinions of men. The scriptures are inerrent. [This message has been edited by Phatboy, 02-25-2004]
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
Re: CONSTANTINE’S SWORD
And I will concede that the behavior of some who profess my belief has been deplorable.
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
Re: CONSTANTINE’S SWORD
It has been brought up elsewhere that the true Christians who love God and have allowed his spirit to live in them are NOT the ones who are responsible. As Mike the Wiz pointed out, I did not kill Indians, Jews, and Witches. To a non believer, there is no difference. You think that it is the concept of Christianity that is the evil. You would prefer it if man was freed from any absolute moral compass to live by and that if man were allowed to decide his own fate that it would be better. In this sense, Christians will disagree with you. Man is fallible, flawed, and incapable of running his own soul. That is why God sent His Son. America is a democracy and not a Theocracy--this is true. I believe that Christians need to stay seperate from politics. I do not believe that the state has a higher source of ethics and morality(individual choice) than does the church.(choose Him) In this setting, you and I will continue to disagree. You will stand on human intellect as a higher and more noble source. I will stand on a divine spirit as my source. You will inform me that my reasoning is simple, faulty, and dogmatically zealous. I will inform you that your human pride has placed itself above God, even denying that He is real. So we will disagree. In America, you and I have the free speech rights to do so.
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 53 by Cthulhu, posted 02-26-2004 9:38 PM | | Phat has not replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
Re: I saw the movie
I clearly saw a plausible story that I believe did happen. It has always struck me as odd the passion and zeal by which people have tried and still try to minimize or mythify the story of God incarnate taking on the sins of man. To a believer, many things in life are uncertain and some events and processes of humanity and our collective interaction with destiny remain a mystery. Some ideas that we have learned and have questioned are never disproven. One of these ideas is the idea that humans are a paradox. On the one hand, humans are more than just animals. Humans are infused with the divine image of God. On the other hand, humans can be worse than the lowest animals. Animals act and react purely according to instinct, whereas humans often are seized by irrational attitudes and zealous passions. Jesus Christ has always brought out the best and the worst in humans. One either loves and believes in His personal Messiah, or one fervantly and dogmatically attempts to disprove and downplay the entire story of Jesus. This movie was well done. The jeers of the crowd and of the guards were a bit of a stretch unless one is struck by the supernatural reality of the event. There is a spiritual realm, and a battle of forces. For those of you who deny this, I will ask you about it again on the next, worse version of 9/11.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 55 by Eastern Star, posted 02-27-2004 7:32 AM | | Eastern Star has not replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
Re: I saw the movie
I knew that you would respond to me first. The spirit behind your weak intellect which you worship so highly is the same spirit that was in the people who did attempt to kill the Messiah. The fact that He lives today fortunately protects the impressionable young minds from the likes of so called progressive thinkers such as yourself who actually poison the young minds of today by leading them down a rabbit trail with nothing to respect but their own ability which you attempt to give them the right to worship. Sorry, Consequent--I feel strongly about the passion which my Messiah endured, and it is people with arrogant attitudes like you(perhaps?) that allowed it to happen---not anti semetic Christians and not the church or the Jews.
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
Re: Play nice now
Thanks, Brian. I DO need to cool off. I have love in my heart for Consequent, but I also have strong passions for my belief. I suppose that to be fair, many atheists are tired of feeling pressure from legislated morals which stem from a Judeo-Christian legacy which attempt to direct their thinking. Consequent, I understand that we should live in a world that is truly free will oriented. Free from restraints and free from direction, allowing popular consensus form the standards rather than following any form of religion. The problem with me is that Humans seem to think that this collective human wisdom is somehow the best source of truth. I respectfully disagree, and I have had some personal experience apart from ancient texts that has formed my Faith. Thats why I get so fired up!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 64 by AdminBrian, posted 02-28-2004 10:16 AM | | AdminBrian has not replied |
|
™ Version 4.2