ID, Information, and Human Perception

I agree with you, but maybe information is not the word to use. I would use the word 'data'. Information requires context.What is the relationship between data-information-knowledge?
Maybe knowledge is needed in order to interpret data into information? The precise arrangement of letters in the soup is data. The arrangement of dna-sequences is also only data.
It only becomes information when this raw data is interpreted in some way.
For example DNA is not information to me. GAGAG tells me nothing. It is information for the cell though. Or take the gigabytes of data streamed back by the mars-rovers. It is usless data until that moment a scientist has had a look at it Also the interpreter that converts data into information does obvioulsy not need to have any form of intelligence.
I can write a program that converts some kind of bulk data, into another form, red by another program that needs this as information to as how it should operate.But whats even funnier i can also write a program that through natural selection rewrites itself and finally does the exakt same thing as my first hand-crafted one.
So when someone says that information cannot arise of its own, but a intelligent creator is needed, they are plain wrong

Damn, i'm a too sloppy reader... missed the Saviourmachine last post before heh...

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Intellegent design and is there a designer or is our existance a mere coincidence that happened out of random chance? I have to say Yaro that I believe the latter not to make sense to me. For my own comfort I like to believe there is a plan and order to the existance of organized matter that has formed conciousness to ponder such questions.

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I just can't see why a creator is more comforting than spontanious arrisal of life! I gives me much more comfort knowing that no matter what, creator or no creator life will still emerge! It feels like a creator is much more limiting. If he/she exists he must either have come from somewhere or always been. If he came at some time he is not the creator of all. Since other things existed before or aside him. Surely we could have been created by such an entity. But hey! Why? It doesn't explain where he came from. Maybe he was created by another... and so on. Since i see no reason to belive so, i dont!On the other hand, if he always existed it means that he is all of the universe, otherwise some part of the universe was there before him. So now I can just as easily say, "i belive in the existance of universe" instead of "i belive in the existance of god".
Since i see no what so ever evidence for that the universe is behaving intelligient in any way. It just is ticking on like a clock.

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Life has evolved from the alphabet soup and random as it is may have been the laws of the phyical universe are keeping it all in order.

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I dont think any particular order is better than any other order for a universe. From the perspective of human existance maybe but one can't apply human perspective in another reality. Any arrangement of the fundamental laws and constants of physics will also create a universe. Just different. Natural selection works in any system where parts interact, evolved intelligent life would just be... another thing. =D

Well now you are a bit picky i'd say

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I am human and when I see the beauty of a childs smile or the utter joy of feeling the sun warm my face as it rises I can not help but feel comforted in the thought that this is not just a random event that I am here existing just because some matter happened to come together just right.It is my perception of God and hence my reality

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How does the smell of screaming burning babies fit into this picture? After all they are part of the picture too. Or the crushing sound of knee-caps beeing hit with a hammer? Or the cry of a deformed child beeing teased by other children ? Are you also comforted by these events, since they are part of the universe as much as the sunlight on your face.

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You may feel comforted in feeling your existance is just a passing form of matter with no reason or plan

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Well i have lots if reasons for existing, thank you Like when I see the beauty of a childs smile or the utter joy of feeling the sun warm my face as it rises. The plan part I really don't understand. What do you mean? What plan has god for you, and how are you comforted by it?I'd agree with your notion that the mere fact that we are here experiencing things is the heart of the matter. But these things are both good and bad sensations. The awareness just can't be understood or explained. Maybe awareness is something that arises out of complexity? Given by a god? Built into the structure of the universe?Perhaps, but it still does not explain anything.
Not by science, philosophy or religon. The idea that God set us here for a reason and with a plan says nothing. What is that plan? If you are comforted by that plan I'm me happy for you, even though I still puzzled

No need to apologize, it was I who provoked you, and came across as a bit hard, not you. I understand your view of god and the universe, and I find it to be a most pleasant one! But personally I still can't find any more comfort or meaning in beeing created by a higher power for some goal, beacuse I just can't see that goal. Rather than the pure god-less way.I guess the "goal" is the question "what is the meaning of life?".
Which so far has been unanswered, and I belive it will remain so.
No possible answer will be good enough, since you can always add another "why" after you have heard the explanation.

Why ?

Careful there. You didn't use circular reasoning. You just defined two words to have the exakt same meaning! So in effect you said nothing at all. Or maybe you tried to say that you are satisfied with not asking questions, and that that makes you happy, but I suspect that is not the case

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The big question is: How does self-organization arise? (Even for crystal formation.)

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For crystal formation its easy, as in all similar processes, it will place itself in the form that requires the least energy, and where it is in equlibrium. If it is not in a stable form, atoms inside it will diffuse to other positions like water flowing downhill. Where it will be in an even less energetic state, beeing in equlibrium. Endlessly advanced structures will form with just a few simple rules. Different effects are stronger than others at different temperatures, different concetrations, different ranges. Some atoms move more slowly than others, through diffusion. Some carry heat or current better than others. Combine all of these factors and almost anything you can imagine is possible.