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Author Topic:   the ultimate question
Tranquility Base
Inactive Member


Message 43 of 59 (9815)
05-16-2002 9:07 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by edge
05-16-2002 12:09 PM


Edge, in my first point I simply wanted to point out that the idea of accelerated decay and associated radiogenic heating is a priori a sensible idea (for us). Almost every model starts out as a hand waving execise. You must know this. So initially we put up with holes just as Darwinism did. But I am also aware of numerous quantitative studies by these guys as well so I'm satisfied that things are proceeding.
No one is trying to claim they have the ultimate answer yet! But they have a possible answer and I am satisfied currently. 5 years down the track I might not be. Many of the initial detractors that you guys point out I have already read the explanations of previously (too much heat etc). I agree we need to get specific but I'll need to get up to speed if we want to do that and I will with the qualification that I am a physicist not a geophysicist.
Do I expect mainstreamers to have all the answers? No, but then neither should you of us. In the first instance we should see which model explains the gross structure of the geological column better. I honestly believe it is the flood model and will post on this.
I'll also post my stuff on cycothems soon - all I'll be saying is that there seems to be overwhelming evidence that these were rapdily formed (including coal) and they represent 100s and 1000s of feet of the geological column. It begs the question whether much of the column was catastrophically generated, and perhaps in one event. Sure you guys can say that only that component was rapid but it still begs the question.
Accelerated decay and rapid drift? The two have only recently been linked anyway. It follows quite naturally that vast radioheating might generate rapid reversals. I can't personally gaurentee that but lets keep an eye on the cals ans ims coming out. And let me have a look at what has been done too.
Do you really think that the mainstream solution to all of this is so good? See my thread on 'Mainstream continental drift'.
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You are go for TLI

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by edge, posted 05-16-2002 12:09 PM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by edge, posted 05-16-2002 10:42 PM Tranquility Base has replied

  
Tranquility Base
Inactive Member


Message 45 of 59 (9820)
05-16-2002 9:34 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by TrueCreation
05-16-2002 8:55 PM


I'm an experimental and theoretical molecular biologist working on genomics and protein folding (but I am still a theoretical physicist at heart) TC.
Having said that I have read a lot of research level material (reviews and monographs) on paelontology and sedimentology/stratigraphy/tectonics. I have taught myself in detail how paleontology works (and am interested to read these guys comments) and now have a good appreciation for the afore mentioned aspects of mainstream geology. But on quantitative models (whether creationist or evolutionist) I will always have to discuss other peoples work. On moelcular and genomic issues I can talk first hand.
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You are go for TLI

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by TrueCreation, posted 05-16-2002 8:55 PM TrueCreation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by TrueCreation, posted 05-16-2002 9:43 PM Tranquility Base has replied
 Message 48 by edge, posted 05-16-2002 10:29 PM Tranquility Base has replied

  
Tranquility Base
Inactive Member


Message 49 of 59 (9838)
05-16-2002 10:33 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by TrueCreation
05-16-2002 9:43 PM


Yes the RATE book is nice. I'd been wanting to see that graph on isotopic age vs stratigraphic age for 15 years. Are you aware that they did experimentally meaure the helium diffusion rate in granites (in the book they were still using extapolations from Argon rates). The diffusion rates back up their arguemnt completely - there is far, far (100,000-fold) too much helium in granites. It should all be in the air (and it's not there):
http://www.icr.org/headlines/ratereport.html
looks like you got the books from Joe. I need mine.
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You are go for TLI

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by TrueCreation, posted 05-16-2002 9:43 PM TrueCreation has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Tranquility Base
Inactive Member


Message 50 of 59 (9839)
05-16-2002 10:35 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by edge
05-16-2002 10:29 PM


I'm here to learn Edge. Mud is more clay isn't it? So what happens to transported soil - gets sorted I guess? But in some instances I can imagine soils being deposited unsorted. I do read introductory txts as well but I obviously don't retain everything. I had to learn what shale, sily, clay, limestone etc was. I enjoy it - I'm sort of taking up geology/paleontology as a hobby even minus the creaiton stuff.
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You are go for TLI
[This message has been edited by Tranquility Base, 05-16-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by edge, posted 05-16-2002 10:29 PM edge has not replied

  
Tranquility Base
Inactive Member


Message 57 of 59 (9858)
05-16-2002 11:58 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by edge
05-16-2002 10:42 PM


Most of your points will be covered in my future posts. Let me just say for now (in case i die) that:
1. It's not c-decay, that has pretty much been dropped by us a long time ago. We already know that fundamental constants are evolving (you're aware of the fine structire constant result last year?). The RATE group (Baumgardner, Snelling, Austin, De Young et al) are studying which consants would do the job without destroying life as we know it. De Young is the physicist - nice guy, I've met him. I'm actually an ex-particle physicist so I'm waiting to see hat they come up with..
2, The cyclothems are most likely due to the multiple (tidal?) surges of a single flood IMO. I will cite a mainstream journal on this point soon that backs this up.
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You are go for TLI

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by edge, posted 05-16-2002 10:42 PM edge has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Joe Meert, posted 05-17-2002 12:16 AM Tranquility Base has replied

  
Tranquility Base
Inactive Member


Message 59 of 59 (9867)
05-17-2002 12:50 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by Joe Meert
05-17-2002 12:16 AM


OK

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Joe Meert, posted 05-17-2002 12:16 AM Joe Meert has not replied

  
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