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Author | Topic: What would you have God do? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
sidelined Member (Idle past 5936 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
Crashfrog
The reason for my posing that question would be to allow me some means of determining whether I was imagining things or if indeed God was the source of my experience.I can think up lots of arguements to explain the apparent phenomena of a disembodied voice speaking to me, therefore, I would personally work against myself since I cannot trust with certainty something that makes no sense to myself due to my life experiences.It would be likely [in my opinion] that in the effort to disprove himself [given the assumption that he does] God would be able to provide me with a perfectly sound arguement that He does exist since [if He really exists] He would be incapable of disproving Himself. This is either a good way to do it or sheer madness.I lean to the latter as most likely. 'Everyone is entitled to his own opinion but not his own facts.' (Daniel Patrick Moynihan)
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RingoKid Inactive Member |
the most selfish thing one could ask for is to be God also...
...and you don't know what i'd do if I was God ??? there'd be sum changes i tell you... truth is, i have had God reveal himself to me and i tried to deny his existence but when confronted with the almighty it's kinda hard, so i trust my feelings enough to know that if God reveals himself to me as in your scenario, I'd know if it was or not and require no further proof Most people don't trust themselves enuff to do that and constantly require proof or validation for their beliefs. It's why i can't handle all the fundamentalist christians and their selfishness, talking about living forever in paradise but only if you do as i do or say... sounds rather boring actually so i'll just live my life as i see fit let karma dictate my rewards on this planet and let God do whatever the hell he likes with me after that... I do believe however that the way to god is thru Jesus life and truth and how he defined them thru his actions and words but one can arrive at godliness by other faiths as well... ...ya just gotta have it as you were...
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sidelined Member (Idle past 5936 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
RK
Most people don't trust themselves enuff to do that and constantly require proof So you think that you are incapable of delusion or stroke induced hallucinations or self-aggrandizement fear or strong emotions or any number of errors that human beings can be subject to? Are you aware of how malleable your memories are? As the saying goes "The first principle is you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool" Evidence is the key to winnowing out a clear picture of the world since it is the world we investigate.Please inform us of how you are able to be certain of your own feelings and what means of sceptical inquiry you undertook to arrive at your position. 'Everyone is entitled to his own opinion but not his own facts.' (Daniel Patrick Moynihan)
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RingoKid Inactive Member |
got it down to a process...
Accept nothing as factquestion everything determine your own truth define your own reality or I think, I know, I feel, I'm right you can think otherwise as is your right to have and express your opinion but it does little to change mine unless it passes thru my process which also acts as nice little bullshit filter as you were...
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JIM Inactive Member |
Primoridial Egg writes: You're walking along some flat grassy plains somewhere, no-one around you for miles, when you hear a deep, booming, voice coming from the sky calling your name. "Who's there?" you say."I am God" says the voice. Now, naturally being atheist, or agnostic, you haven't readily subscribed to the notion of God previously and you're frankly sceptical. Although there is nobody around for miles, it could simply be a prank you don't understand, or alien contact or a whole slew of outlandish, yet plausible, other possibilities. "I don't believe you" you say defiantly."I am God. Honest. I can do anything." says the voice. "What would you have me do to prove it to you?" What would you have the voice do to convince you? Interesting situation. This probably what I would do:
Those are the only three things I would ask. I wouldn't need anything else for verification.
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Melchior Inactive Member |
Hmm, are you allowed to give trick answers? I'd probably ask him to make the world a bit more harmonic because anyone who has the power and will to do that would to me qualify as exactly the sort of God I'd ever respect.
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Unseul Inactive Member |
The first question (assuming im allowed more than one) id ask would have to be "why?". Although this could be taken extremely deeply as in why every single event occured id just like an explaination of why he made all this (fraid i havent read the bible, i tried to get the through the old testament, but found it was poorly written, hard to believe, boring and laughable in places) Basically if it says why in the bible then could someone give me the quote. (i reckon one answer i might accept would be "for a laugh."
After that then it becomes extremely tricky, cos its hard to accept something totally since in the end we should always be questioning what the hell is going on. And the existence of god would sorta make things quite definite, i suppose one thing i could ask would be for it to give me all possible knowledge, languages, history, physics, the truth about the things ive learnt in science, what some bloke who wrote some book said on page 51 just after the second full stop that was actually meant to be a comma but the editor got it wrong etc etc. Then i suspect i would actively go out and try and find something i didnt know. Tricky tho. Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life....
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BigMike Inactive Member |
So we have God going about accosting people on grassy fields and demanding to know what he must do to prove his own existence. If I were his target, I would, after dilligently looking for the cameras, likely scratch my head for a few minutes and look confused.
My first impression would be the excellent question chosen by many other posters; I would demand that he make me believe in him. On reflection, even that doesn't work. The possibility exists that this question could be just as easily be posed by some supernatural agency of great power who is not God. One presumes that such an agency could impenetrably decieve any human (as has been pointed in various ways in this thread by several individuals). Given this possibility, any proposed test can be met by the counter argument "Couldn't X just make you believe that your test has been met?" (where X=the devil, aliens, etc.) There is nothing that this deity could do to convince me.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1495 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
There is nothing that this deity could do to convince me. No, because as you said, he can just make you convinced. I think perhaps what you meant is that there is nothing that this entity could do that you could prove to other people is convincing.
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mike the wiz Member Posts: 4755 From: u.k Joined: |
The conclusion is exactly how Christ predicted. "Even if one rose from the dead they would not believe". You see, it is similar with God - no one would even believe if he appeared. Though in all honesty - I would probably be easily convinced. I know I said I would ask my name etc. But it wouldn't take much to convince me.
So like Christ taught - it all really does come down to belief. Evidence is almost irrelevant in this topic, so we can now see that God was right when he spoke of belief. I have heard of testimonies where people have seen Christ, and believed. I believe these testimonies may well be true. But how on earth could evidence ever be helpful? I'm amazed - it seems the athiests must also now agree it is about belief - and are now without excuse if they tout "evidence, evidence".
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RingoKid Inactive Member |
If GOD made you God also to prove itself to you...
...then knowledge of self and omnipotence would tell you by your own feelings as GOD that you must be GOD, not sum deceitful extra terrestrial entity proof enough ??? My question would be if God made you God for an instant (given that time is irrelevent) and you could make one single change to yourself or the universe (eg...time space, gravity, immortality, wisdom, good looks, a bigger penis) What would it be ???
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1495 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
I'm amazed - it seems the athiests must also now agree it is about belief I totally disagree. If God appeared to me, the only way he could convince me would be by making me convinced. But once he's done that, I'm going to tell him "For God's sake, God, what the fuck are you wasting your time here for? Shit's going down, man, and you're messing around with my head! Get to work, already!" God could convince me he was Him, but that's not going to make me like him. God's got a lot to do and it's gonna piss me off if he wastes his time playing games with me when folks are really suffering somewhere else. Once we've tackled the existence of God, I need to see some evidence that he's actually a good guy. That's gonna take actions, not words.
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mike the wiz Member Posts: 4755 From: u.k Joined: |
I thought Christ's actions were according to his words.
God's got a lot to do and it's gonna piss me off if he wastes his time playing games with me when folks are really suffering somewhere else. Since it is so hard to convince you Crash, I would have to bet that if the world was perfect you would still think there was no God, your previous posts confirm this - and so, I feel both these similar opinions would cancel each other out. What I mean is; God it seems couldn't convince you by appearing to you, and he supposedly could if there was no more suffering. But if there was no suffering you would probably then say he would need to appear to you. And why wouldn't that be consistent - afterall, you are an atheist. If you say no bad things/no suffering = God, then you now have to say that all good things we experience = God. OR - You can admitt that your two opinions cancel each other out. Aren't I a pain in the arse?
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1495 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
I thought Christ's actions were according to his words. Maybe, but since none of us know what he said or did, we'll never know, will we?
I would have to bet that if the world was perfect you would still think there was no God Well, we'll never know. I know that you think that I disbelieve in God just to be an ass, or something, but that's far from the truth. I'm amienable to the existence of God. It's just that God doesn't exist.
What I mean is; God it seems couldn't convince you by appearing to you Sure he could. What he would have to do is start acting like God. That is, fix what's broken in the world.
But if there was no suffering you would probably then say he would need to appear to you. If life were perfect, I imagine that the presence of God would be irrefutable - not just because things were perfect, but because God's presence would be just as substantial as my wife's, or any person that I observe exists. I'm only an atheist because, as far as I can tell, God doesn't exist. It's pretty simple, Mike.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
If he could put padding on shin bones and get the slime out of okra, would that suffice as proof?
(I always figured they were two things that got left 'till about 5 o'clock on day six. You know, good enough, let evolutions fix it up) Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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