clearing up

I just want to say that I believe it 100% necessary for you to believe Jesus Christ is the son of God. Necessary for what ? is that what your asking? - to enter his kingdom, (because only God washes us from our sins)and I believe we can only enter sin free. I believe he payed for our sins and that we will all be judged by him. I believe we should avoid all the sins mentioned by him.Recently, it seems an out of context qoute confused whether I believe this or not, and so I thought I should clear this up.These are my personal beliefs, so please do not be offended.

So Mike, since Jesus paid for our sins we are all saved then, great!Brian

If you repented to him and believe in him - yes.

Would you be interested in discussing why Jesus died? For instance:1.) Why does someone have to be toruted in order for God to forgive?2.) How can someone other than the guilty pay for sins? i.e. how does jesus getting murdered alleviate my sins?3.) Why would you want an innocent person to take your punishment?4.) Why is Jesus's punishment less severe than mine, if he is paying for my sins? (Mine=eternity in hell, Jesus's= not too sure, maybe you can expound a bit)This one's a little off topic, but I never heard a satisfactory answer to it:How can we have freewill in heaven if we can't sin?Hopefully you can clear this up a bit.JustinC

Oh there are extras now?Jesus death, on its own, isnt enough, this means that he could have died for nothing, if no one repents his death would be a waste of time!Of course, since Jesus is supposed ot be God then he knows exactly who will repent and join him in heaven. This also makes the crucifixion a mockery, why not just cut out all the garbage in the middle, Jesus could live with his sycophants for ever a nanosecond after creation.Brian.

mtw In the days when I used to consider religion as a way of life it was my observation that the point of God sending Jesus was to test people true nature and that those who did accept christ were the ones God would reject. My 'logic" was along these lines.I felt that God wanted to see if we would allow another(Jesus) to take our punishment for us. The ones who would not would be those more"noble" in spirit.
Luckily life became far clearer with the passing of time.

'How can we have freewill in heaven if we can't sin?'Because when you have understood, you realise you wont want to sin. I choose not to sin as best I can everyday, if I wanted to sin in heaven then I would obviously prefer hell!'
'Why would you want an innocent person to take your punishment?'I don't, but it seems only God can save us from our ways.'.) Why is Jesus's punishment less severe than mine, if he is paying for my sins?'You forget the enormous actions involved here. God is holy, yet of his own will he took stripes and suffered on a cross, he came so humbly when he could have chose to wipe us out. Is God's spilled blood not enough for you, why can't you believe when I can?

'if no one repents his death would be a waste of time!'Even if one would repent he would have came, in my opinion. Besides, many have repented so what is your point, if any?

My point is Mike is that Jesus (God) knows everything, he would know who will repent even before he created us, so he actually doesn't need all this crappy stuff in the middle, why not just cut all this out and take the ones who will accept Him and live together in Heaven immediately after the creation?Brian.

'so he actually doesn't need all this crappy stuff in the middle, why not just cut all this out and take the ones who will accept Him and live together in Heaven immediately after the creation?'Who am i to question God's purposes?and what crappy stuff?

message 1 stands

It is called life Mike. You know the thing that can have a lot of pain in it.The pain of losing loved ones, the pain of a broken heart, the pain of two ruptured ligaments! lolYou know the things Mike, athritis creepin up, friends expiring, seeing others on pain, being unable to help some people.This crappy stuff? You are a human being Mike, you owe it to yourself to question everything, or would you rather be a mindless robot that squawks about God being great all day? Why wouldn't you want to know the truth?Brian.

'Why wouldn't you want to know the truth?'I know the truth, but the truth I know you do not know.'This crappy stuff?'God heals everyday, this he does if you ask, what is your problem, are you afraid you will recieve if you ask? If God does a good thing by healing, why then is there a problem?'You know the things Mike, athritis creepin up, friends expiring, seeing others on pain,'I sympathise, but Jesus did not say earth will be heaven.'You are a human being Mike, you owe it to yourself to question everything, or would you rather be a mindless robot that squawks about God being great all day? 'If God has only ever done good things for me, why should I complain?

HI Mike,The point of the post was that all the crappy stuff doesnt need to happen, since jesus knows who will accept him he could have set up heaven with all his robots right away. It seems pretty stupid to go around healing people who are suffering unnecessarily when you could have avoided it all. Yes I now the truth which means you dont! Just jokin. God does a good thing by healing a disease or illness that he gave that person anyway? A weird faith you have mike.Why would I waste my time asking 'God' anything, I have far more important things going on in my life.Brian.

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'How can we have freewill in heaven if we can't sin?'
Because when you have understood, you realise you wont want to sin. I choose not to sin as best I can everyday, if I wanted to sin in heaven then I would obviously prefer hell!

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Why didn't he make us so we all 'understood' to begin with? Do you want to sin now? If not then why do you do it? What's going to be different in heaven?Also, if it's possible to have beings that have free will and do not sin, then the 'free will' defense to the problem of evil fails. In which case the 'problem of evil' seems to contradict an omnibenevolent god.

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'Why would you want an innocent person to take your punishment?'

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I don't, but it seems only God can save us from our ways.

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Why do Christians always respond with such vague statements? The reason Jesus died was to pay for your sins, right? So someone has to pay for your sins, right? Why would you want an innocent person, i.e. jesus, to pay for them? Wouldn't you rather pay for them yourself?

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You forget the enormous actions involved here. God is holy, yet of his own will he took stripes and suffered on a cross, he came so humbly when he could have chose to wipe us out. Is God's spilled blood not enough for you, why can't you believe when I can?

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No, there is no enormous action. God suffered pain for a split second, who cares? Basically you are saying Gods a sissy and the same amount of pain that a man suffers is much more severe for God, right? Punishment is punishment, it should be the same for everyone. Are you saying that God getting crucified (even though he can't die) is equal to me spending eternity in hell?The first two questions are the main ones I don't understand though:
1.) Why does someone have to be toruted in order for God to forgive?2.) How can someone other than the guilty pay for sins? i.e. how does jesus getting murdered alleviate my sins?JustinC