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Author Topic:   Petition on the White House site
ramoss
Member (Idle past 642 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 1 of 8 (702464)
07-07-2013 12:25 PM


To make creationism and intelligent design offically illegal to teach in schools
The White House

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-07-2013 5:53 PM ramoss has not replied
 Message 4 by RAZD, posted 07-07-2013 7:29 PM ramoss has not replied
 Message 5 by Jon, posted 07-08-2013 9:07 PM ramoss has not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 832 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 2 of 8 (702465)
07-07-2013 12:42 PM


Something something something states rights something something.

"Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." -Dawkins

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 3 of 8 (702476)
07-07-2013 5:53 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by ramoss
07-07-2013 12:25 PM


I'm fairly sure that it already is. There were court cases and everything. This is using a sledgehammer to crack a nut that has in fact already been cracked, and indeed crushed to a fine powder.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by ramoss, posted 07-07-2013 12:25 PM ramoss has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 4 of 8 (702478)
07-07-2013 7:29 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by ramoss
07-07-2013 12:25 PM


Signed and shared.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by ramoss, posted 07-07-2013 12:25 PM ramoss has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 8 (702539)
07-08-2013 9:07 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by ramoss
07-07-2013 12:25 PM


As Dr. A. points out, teaching Creationism and Intelligent Design has already been shown, on a federal level, to be a violation of the Constitution's separation of church and state.
So it is already against the law.
How do you think making it against the law again would help?

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by ramoss, posted 07-07-2013 12:25 PM ramoss has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by NoNukes, posted 07-09-2013 11:02 AM Jon has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 8 (702562)
07-09-2013 11:02 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Jon
07-08-2013 9:07 PM


A particular implementation of Intelligent design has been adjudicated to be non-science in a ruling that applies to one school system in a particular federal district. The ruling is not binding on other parties even in the same district.
That said, there is little the executive branch can do about that, and at least one part of the legislative branch seems more likely to pass an 'Academic Freedom' bill suppotting ID than to pass anything endorsing the separartion of Church and State.
I doubt that the petition will get enough signatures by the deadline date anyway.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Jon, posted 07-08-2013 9:07 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Jon, posted 07-09-2013 4:19 PM NoNukes has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 7 of 8 (702575)
07-09-2013 4:19 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by NoNukes
07-09-2013 11:02 AM


A particular implementation of Intelligent design has been adjudicated to be non-science in a ruling that applies to one school system in a particular federal district. The ruling is not binding on other parties even in the same district.
You are correct.
That said, there is little the executive branch can do about that, and at least one part of the legislative branch seems more likely to pass an 'Academic Freedom' bill suppotting ID than to pass anything endorsing the separartion of Church and State.
That is part of the point. The petition is worthless. The things it seeks to outlaw are already largely outlawed. The problem isn't that there are laws allowing the teaching of Creationism and ID in schools. The problem is that the curricula of schools is determined largely by local panels of non-specialists (parents, business owners, clergy...). If they choose to include Creationism or ID in their school's curriculum, then it gets included. If no one complains about it being there, then it stays. The current way we build curricula is faulty; plain and simple.
It might feel good to tell the federal government that it can't teach Creationism and ID, but it is of little use when the federal government has such small say in what shows up in the classroom to begin with.
In short, this petition barks up the wrong tree.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by NoNukes, posted 07-09-2013 11:02 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by NoNukes, posted 07-13-2013 1:03 PM Jon has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 8 (703007)
07-13-2013 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Jon
07-09-2013 4:19 PM


In short, this petition barks up the wrong tree.
Well of course the petition is useless. The overwhelming majority of the petitions on that site are equally stupid. We've already discussed the various secession petitions put up after the election.
I look at the list of recent petitions on the site and I see this:
quote:
End His Assault on our Nation’s Coal Mining Families
That's right. A petition to have the president apologize for his remarks that burning coal causes pollution and contributes to climate change because that is a personal affront to everyone who has ever mined coal. Like that's going to happen.
quote:
Investigate the Federal Reserve System
It isn't the cosmology cranks that are dangerous.
quote:
Declare the Situation in Egypt a Military Coup and Demand the Army to Reinstate Dr. Morsi as President of Egypt
Yep. I'm sure this petition is going to influence foreign policy.
Sure, we'll get right on that.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Jon, posted 07-09-2013 4:19 PM Jon has not replied

  
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