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| Author | Topic: Alright I have a rather stubborn friend. | |||||||||||||||||||
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Fork Inactive Member |
He makes Hovinds theroies his central argument.
Here is the debate I've got going against him.He claims that the moons distance from the earth and its recession rate means a young earth. He also claims that The earths slow down rate means the same thing, claiming that it would be spinning past escape velocity 4.5 billion years ago. I reply with this information. Dave Matson Young Earth Specific Arguments Rotate » Internet Infidels Dave Matson Young Earth Specific Arguments Moon Recede » Internet Infidels The following conversation is the arguments following. The creationist friend~he quotes sources that are 20-30 years old, no math is there to back what he says and many points are irrelevant and the about earths rotation, the length of days is irrelevant because it is the velocity of the rotations that would be damaging, seconds does not = MPH failsidon master... also he abuses theoretical physics to try and denounce something which can be proven by HARD MATH, what is this garbage about bent space? all things entropy therefore the orbit decays. this has been proven by mathematicians and nasa scientists, google: ORBITAL DECAY OF THE EARTH. heres an interesting question...how did the moon MAGICALLY FALL INTO EXACT ORBIT with the earth for perfect life sustaining tidal cycles? what is this crap about resonance in the oceans? the oceans do not control the spin of the earth. its again IRRELEVANT to the subject matter My arguments. he quotes sources that are 20-30 years old, They are? List them please. no math is there to back what he says and many points are irrelevant and the about earths rotation, the length of days is irrelevant because it is the velocity of the rotations that would be damaging, seconds does not = MPH failsidon master... but from hours we can deduce the speed. The earth spins at almost 1000mph now with a 24hr day. And life wasn't around for a billion or so years by the way. So, the earths rotational speed 3.5 billion years ago was..... assuming a 14 hr day, that 1850, max. Escape velocity? 11.2m/s.Easily falls short. Easily. also he abuses theoretical physics to try and denounce something which can be proven by HARD MATH, what is this garbage about bent space? You mean relativity? The theory of gravity under relativity works like that mason. Its all dents in space. And give me an example of his "Abuse", point out where I'm wrong. You can not just spew shit out and have me accept it, now were in my prefered debate method. One with facts, sources, quotes, and a distinct lack bullshit compared to what I usually have to deal with when you try to ask me exact numbers that arent a simple two step equations that dont fucking work. all things entropy therefore the orbit decays. this has been proven by mathematicians and nasa scientists, google: ORBITAL DECAY OF THE EARTH. Here, second answer on google.http://www.madsci.org/...rchives/apr2000/956408936.As.q.html Notice the grade level question its rated under, 7-9. This is seriously stupid. Heres a physics site that says it.Will the earth's orbit around the sun eventually decay as a satellites orbit decays around earth orbit? Heres how planet orbits work, it has pretty pictures for you too  Orbit - Wikipedia heres an interesting question...how did the moon MAGICALLY FALL INTO EXACT ORBIT with the earth for perfect life sustaining tidal cycles? HEY YOU COULDNT HAVE GOTTEN THAT RANDOM HAND OF CARDS THE PROBABILTY OF THAT DRAW IS 1 IN 248357356876239 . Falacious argument. And why are the tides nesecary to life? what is this crap about resonance in the oceans? the oceans do not control the spin of the earth. its again IRRELEVANT to the subject matter Angular momentum and energy The gravitational torque between the Moon and the tidal bulge of the Earth causes the Moon to be accelerated in its orbit, and the Earth to be decelerated in its rotation. As in any physical process, total energy and angular momentum are conserved. Effectively, energy and angular momentum are transferred from the rotation of the Earth to the orbital motion of the Moon. The Moon moves farther away from the Earth, so its potential energy (in the Earth's gravity well) increases. It stays in orbit, and from Kepler 's 3rd law it follows that its velocity actually decreases, so the tidal acceleration of the Moon causes an apparent deceleration of its motion across the celestial sphere. Although its kinetic energy decreases, its potential energy increases by a larger amount. The Moon's orbital angular momentum also increases. Conversely, the rotational angular momentum of the Earth decreases: its rotation slows down, and the length of the day increases. The net tide raised on Earth by the Moon is dragged ahead of the Moon by Earth's much faster rotation. Tidal friction (dissipated as heat) is required to drag and maintain the bulge ahead of the Moon. If the friction and heat dissipation were not present, the Moon's gravitational force on the tidal bulge would rapidly (within two days) bring the tide back into synchronization with the Moon, which would no longer recede. Most of the dissipation occurs in a turbulent bottom boundary layer in shallow seas such as the European shelf around the British Isles , the Patagonian shelf off Argentina, and the Bering Sea.[1] A tidal bulge (called an equilibrium tide) does not really exist on Earth for the Moon to pull on because the continents break it up as they pass under the Moon. Oceanic tides actually rotate around each ocean basin as vast gyres around several amphidromic points where no tide exists. The Moon pulls on each individual undulation as Earth rotates”some undulations are ahead of the Moon, others are behind it, while still others are on either side. An equilibrium tide in the shape of a prolate spheroid that the Moon supposedly pulls on is only the net result of integrating the actual undulations over all the world's oceans. Earth's net equilibrium tide has an amplitude of only 3.23 cm, which is totally swamped by oceanic tides that can exceed one metre. The Moon recedes from Earth at the rate of approximately 38 mm per year. The Earth's day lengthens by about 24 s every year due to tidal friction, but other processes are at work as well that change the net observed change in day length, which is highly variable. Next time, try putting some facts in there. Remember we're not making the claim, you are. Im simply refuting your theories. Burden of WHAT! Also, respond faster ploz. The next reply of his, our current level On 8/7/06, AvatarOfFenris@aol.com he quotes sources that are 20-30 years old, They are? List them please. look back though what you showed me all sources are 1976, 1982, 1983, no math is there to back what he says and many points are irrelevant and the about earths rotation, the length of days is irrelevant because it is the velocity of the rotations that would be damaging, seconds does not = MPH failsidon master... but from hours we can deduce the speed. The earth spins at almost 1000mph now with a 24hr day. And life wasn't around for a billion or so years by the way. So, the earths rotational speed 3.5 billion years ago was..... assuming a 14 hr day, that 1850, max. Escape velocity? 11.2m/s.Easily falls short. Easily. actaully go look up NASA's calculations youll find you are once again wrong multiply the actual VELOCITY that the earth slows by then go ahead and multiply that by 4 billion i think the number youll stare at will impress you... also he abuses theoretical physics to try and denounce something which can be proven by HARD MATH, what is this garbage about bent space? You mean relativity? The theory of gravity under relativity works like that mason. Its all dents in space. And give me an example of his "Abuse", point out where I'm wrong. You can not just spew shit out and have me accept it, now were in my prefered debate method. One with facts, sources, quotes, and a distinct lack bullshit compared to what I usually have to deal with when you try to ask me exact numbers that arent a simple two step equations that dont fucking work. gratz on your preferred debate method if you feel like researching do so i dont need to prove anything go look up the general topics im sure you can find reliable sources. also my answers are common sensical with no terms meaning one can see its meaning without all that extra typing, furthermore using thoeretical physics to try and disprove PROVEN scientific research is a flawed approach from the start. BTW thats only a PART of the THEORY of relativity which has been proven to have numerous holes in it. all things entropy therefore the orbit decays. this has been proven by mathematicians and nasa scientists, google: ORBITAL DECAY OF THE EARTH. Here, second answer on google.http://www.madsci.org/...rchives/apr2000/956408936.As.q.html Notice the grade level question its rated under, 7-9. This is seriously stupid. Heres a physics site that says it.Will the earth's orbit around the sun eventually decay as a satellites orbit decays around earth orbit? Heres how planet orbits work, it has pretty pictures for you too Orbit - Wikipedia yes because madsci.org is obviously more well renowned and accurate then NASA, and orbital decay is proven and measured. GG heres an interesting question...how did the moon MAGICALLY FALL INTO EXACT ORBIT with the earth for perfect life sustaining tidal cycles? HEY YOU COULDNT HAVE GOTTEN THAT RANDOM HAND OF CARDS THE PROBABILTY OF THAT DRAW IS 1 IN 248357356876239 . Falacious argument. And why are the tides nesecary to life? yes it could have. but then factor in again the numbers for chance of evolution occuring EVER and then in the order it happened, and then of the distance of the sun, and the solar system etc. Angular momentum and energy The gravitational torque between the Moon and the tidal bulge of the Earth causes the Moon to be accelerated in its orbit, and the Earth to be decelerated in its rotation. As in any physical process, total energy and angular momentum are conserved. Effectively, energy and angular momentum are transferred from the rotation of the Earth to the orbital motion of the Moon. The Moon moves farther away from the Earth, so its potential energy (in the Earth's gravity well) increases. It stays in orbit, and from Kepler 's 3rd law it follows that its velocity actually decreases, so the tidal acceleration of the Moon causes an apparent deceleration of its motion across the celestial sphere. Although its kinetic energy decreases, its potential energy increases by a larger amount. The Moon's orbital angular momentum also increases. Conversely, the rotational angular momentum of the Earth decreases: its rotation slows down, and the length of the day increases. The net tide raised on Earth by the Moon is dragged ahead of the Moon by Earth's much faster rotation. Tidal friction (dissipated as heat) is required to drag and maintain the bulge ahead of the Moon. If the friction and heat dissipation were not present, the Moon's gravitational force on the tidal bulge would rapidly (within two days) bring the tide back into synchronization with the Moon, which would no longer recede. Most of the dissipation occurs in a turbulent bottom boundary layer in shallow seas such as the European shelf around the British Isles , the Patagonian shelf off Argentina, and the Bering Sea.[1] A tidal bulge (called an equilibrium tide) does not really exist on Earth for the Moon to pull on because the continents break it up as they pass under the Moon. Oceanic tides actually rotate around each ocean basin as vast gyres around several amphidromic points where no tide exists. The Moon pulls on each individual undulation as Earth rotates”some undulations are ahead of the Moon, others are behind it, while still others are on either side. An equilibrium tide in the shape of a prolate spheroid that the Moon supposedly pulls on is only the net result of integrating the actual undulations over all the world's oceans. Earth's net equilibrium tide has an amplitude of only 3.23 cm, which is totally swamped by oceanic tides that can exceed one metre. The Moon recedes from Earth at the rate of approximately 38 mm per year. The Earth's day lengthens by about 24 s every year due to tidal friction, but other processes are at work as well that change the net observed change in day length, which is highly variable.oooh lookie you sent me material proving my point. read : The Moon recedes from Earth at the rate of approximately 38 mm per year meaning entropy is enacting and that the earths days are elongating due to the moons RECESSION aka DECAYING ORBIT which you tried to denounce earlier. you also may want to multiply 38mm by 4 billion which would give you how much closer the moon was to the earth. allow me to show you some facts... 38 mm x 4 billion = 1 million 520 thousand meters closer to the earth to put that in perspective thats 150 THOUSAND kilometers closer which would have a ginormous impact on the earth and its ecology. also at that range i believe the earth and moon would begin pulling each other into them. of course im not nasa and i dont know exactly what would happen. Next time, try putting some facts in there. Remember we're not making the claim, you are. Im simply refuting your theories. Burden of WHAT! Also, respond faster ploz. Finally i dont need to find the facts I already know what im talking about, YOU attacked MY religion and somehow im making the claim? negative. my THEORIES havent been refuted yet there pal so keep trying what 1000's of athiests already have and still have NO way to prove what you believe. btw its called the THEORY of evolution which was created by charles darwin, and since you so much love talking about hovind lets speak on darwin. criminal record you say? try reading darwins work where he openly admits to alchoholism and copious cocaine use all throughout his studies which consisted of stumbling around the galapagos islands intoxicated and writing things in his notebook I'm sorry about the slight language, but this is a very adult forum and I don't suspect it to be a problem. Now I cannot for the life of me give him a definitive answer to shut him down on this. Please, as a first timer to the forum, help me with this "Special" friend of mine.
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