god enjoys watching us struggle.

why would god make the bible SO open to interpretation? if god wants us to believe in him, and worship him, why make it so hard to do that? ask any 'christian' a question about the bible, and you will get so many various interpretations. Also, why is christianity the 'right' religion? in most every religion, their own religion is the right one, and all others are evil. christianity is just man's interpretations of what they cannot understand. religion is a branch of archaic science, science is merely defined as 'The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena.' (thank you dictionary.com). religion is just a way of explaining stuff that was confusing in the past, just as we dismiss old theories of science (the world is flat, geocentricity, etc.) we need to stop with the religion. also, in our world, many people complain that, "if god loves us, why does he let (insert bad event here) happen?" and the most common response is "its all in his plan, blah blah blah" if it is god's plan, and god is all powerful, can he not do the same plan but in a different method? cant he constantly think of a way to act out his plans better and better without incorporating that 'bad event'? everything about religion and god is just so illogical. o yea, and god seems like he has such low self-esteem. i mean, does anyone really need angels and s*** constantly worshipping him?sorry that it seems like a bunch of random rambling, i started with my initial topic, and then i had a brain fart and all this stuff came out.

Or why do we have to worship God? How vain can God really be?I was unfortunate enough to attend a Christian meeting a few years back. It was really educational seeing mass delusion in action and I have to say I felt sorry for most of the people attending who in my opinion were completely brain-washed. Perhaps not so difficult to understand when you heard the minister threatening everyone with an eternal life in Hell if they didn't worship 'our Lord'.

Unfortunately, it was God's plan to find another way to carry out His Perfect Will without death, suffering, pain, But The Bible states that God is a just God, and unfortunately because man sinned against God, we brought Pain and tribulation into this world. In the beginning, we were to have perfect Harmony with Him, but because of our free will (which was misused), we won't be able to experience that until Heaven (For those who choose to be born again).On the subject of Christ desiring to be worshipped, give me a Scripture reference where God, says "Worship Me!" to us. Not a man admitting we should worship Him, but God Himself, and we'll talk about it. We simply owe it to Him, that's all we could give back because He saved us!And as for the Pastor freckles ran into, its not required we Worship Him, but you'll find that if you really take the time to truly give Christ a chance, you'll find yourself worshipping Him. John 3:16 I'm sure you've heard of: (paraphrased) " Whoever believes on Him will be saved." not, " Whoever worships Him will be saved."

In Message #3, Ballinforchrist24 asks for scriptural examples where "God says 'Worship Me.'"I'm not sure what Ballin's point is, but we will see.Anyway, here are a few examples for variety:Exodus, Chapter 4:
(21)The LORD said to Moses, "When you return to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders I have given you the power to do. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go. (22) Then say to Pharaoh, 'This is what the LORD says: Israel is my firstborn son, (23) and I told you, "Let my son go, so he may worship me." But you refused to let him go; so I will kill your firstborn son.' "Matthew 4:
"(10)Jesus said to him, 'Away from me, Satan! For it is written: Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.'"John 4:23
"Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks."Worship: "Reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power; also : an act of expressing such reverence. A form of religious practice with its creed and ritual. (Websters)Pray: "To address God or a god with adoration, confession, supplication, or thanksgiving." (Websters)Luke, Chapter 11:
"(1)One day Jesus was praying in a certain place. When he finished, one of his disciples said to him, 'Lord, teach us to pray, just as John taught his disciples.' (2)He said to them, 'When you pray, say: 'Father, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come ... (etc.)"Gods require worship.Peace.

PsyikoIf you read the bible from the beginning, you learn that the first big deal was a choice between life and the knowledge of good and evil. Life was understood to be a loving relationship, two or more persons teaming, sharing, comforting, encouraging, etc. Knowledge of good and evil would include interpreting the bible. This was death, as we have seen throughout history.So, what is God up to with this Bible? It's a clear document. It says, "Can we talk?" Over and over and over again. It's something to talk about with God Himself. In and of itself, useless, even dangerous. But, as something you and God can have a heart to heart over, most effective. So, if you want a rich life, a lot of love in your days and years, pick up the bible, read something, and say, "Hey, God, let's talk about this. Why did this happen? What does this mean?" Then, hearken to His voice, and let your Father in Heaven teach and raise you the way only a good father can, to be as glorious and honorable and happy as a good father always wants his children to be.But take the bible's advice on one thing. Stay away from religion, especially Christianity. Hypocrites are bad company.Stephen

Abshalom--I'm embarrassed to admit that my point was to prove that God never commanded us to worship Him. I'm sorry that i do not know my Bible as much as i wish i did, and in the future i will make sure i'll answer questions im sure about.But im also secure enough in my faith to know that there is a logical explanation to prove that God is an error-free God, and maybe the logical answer is that, because of our finite minds, we can't determine God's reasons with our line of thinking.I'm hoping that a mature Christian will step up to the plate here and help me out. I could guess here, but i feel research is needed and, well, i think ive guessed enough already. Maybe 15 year-olds shouldnt mess around with this if they aint prepared, huh?Anyways, i'll see if i can give you an answer sometime. Have a good week everybody.--Marcus
Nahum 1:7

Hey ballin,Young folk are allways welcome at the EVC! And I would also like to commend you for being honest, and swalling your pride. that's something alot of us around here don't do often enugh.In any case, as to your statement: I think you are setting yourself for a long slog with this one. The only way you can avoid it is by clarafying weather or not you take the Bible as litteraly true, or figurativly true.You see, the problem is that god does make many mistakes. In the bible God is often given the atrubute of regret. How can an 'error-free' god have any regrets?Likewise god is often surprised by mans actions. Heck, god dosn't even realize man ate the apple in the garden of eden. He goes lookin for adam, but is puzzled when he can't find him. How is an error-free god capable of being puzzled?It is my opinion that these atributes are things humans asign to gods to make them more understandable, and the bible is evidence of this. But to try and deffend it on a litteral basis, you are going to set yourself up for a very hard time.

Ballinforchrist24:On a closer reading of your original message it seems you are saying that you don't know of any scripture where Jesus requires us to worship him, and in fact I cannot give you an example of Jesus saying that we are required to worship him as a god or as a part of the Trinity. His only council is to pray to the Father as he instructed in the "Lord's Prayer."Ballin, I think I misunderstood your challenge, and I owe you an apology; not the other way around. You see, I sometimes forget that some devout people think of Jesus as a deity, or as a part of god, rather than just as a teacher and a man. I should have keyed in on your use of "Christ" and seen that you were saying that Christ had never required self-worship. If that was your intent, then I think you are right. I have never seen a scripture where Jesus says anything like "you must worship me."Ballin, it is not my intention to dissuade a 15-year-old from his or her faith. Your faith is something between you and your god, and something you should decide based on dialogue with your parents and your minister, not me. Okay?Ballin, you have a good week at school and enjoy learning. Do not be embarrassed or bull-dogged by old cynics like me answering your challenge that was made based on your good faith. Okay?Peace.

Jesus said "follow me". "Worship" was not the point.

i distinctly remember a passage in Revelations where it is stated that god is surrounded my numerous angels and others all 'exalting the lord'.

Abshalom--Thanks for the oppurtunity to look good, but no, i believed you would not find a Scripture reference that the Father or Son (or Holy Spirit, for that matter) commanded us to worship Him.
I understand your intentions Abshalom. Thank you for your words, even an atheist cant disagree that " A soft answer turns away strife." Yaro--I got a pretty in-depth Study Bible for my Birthday this past year, and i'm gonna steal a little something from it. Just a little foot note. These are not my own words, but a good point none the less: " The question, 'Where are you?' was God's way of bringing man to explain why he was hiding, rather than expressing ignorance about man's location.... There was no place to hide; there never is." and it gives the verse Psalm 139:7-12, which is where David talks about the fact he cant get away from God.
I think of a mother seeing her son break a glass, and asking "Did you break this glass?" The mother isnt in mass confusion on the kid breaking the glass, just bringing remorse upon the child. Maybe even testing its honesty.Psyiko--Whats wrong with people, angels exalting the Lord?--Marcus
Psalm 121:1