My thoughts on a Designer

I think there is a designer. I have had many thoughts on this lately. I think it's reasonable to deduce a designer from looking at the universe, and would like to expound on this in the knowledge that I am willing to have my small summary refuted.Premisses;

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There are instances in which to get the right conditions for events/life/tangeable diverse matter, "thought" seems to be a requirement.

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In this universe, there atleast seems to be such instances.

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Conclusion; This universe required "thought".I shall try and back up both premisses as best I can. First I will say that the first mover has to be motivated and then the problem is solved. (Sidelined).Thus to demand God having a "beginning", is to demand circles have "corners". The problem is solved via motivation, and I've been dieing to spit this out. It strikes me that the first cause, if self-sufficient, can "cause" or move to instigate, via motivation and so a mind solves the problem.Infact, a "mind" solves many problems, without people being so impolites as to say I am filling gaps with God.Infact, I shall not mention him for the rest of this post, and now I shall expound upon my premisses, by supporting the first premise:It seems that thought is a requirement, because that is self-evident in any worthy system.It would be premature to say that random chance alone, can create situations of order, if we see that there are particular requirements needed, in order to get a viable system. And also, the systems that are in place, suggest foreknowledge of requirements for that system. Hence my second premise; and here is an example;We see that if there was no time, then no events would occur, and if there were no friction, nothing would hold, and if there were no light and energy, there would be no life. Which begs the question; Is there and event and something that should hold together, and something that should need energy, precedingly? If these specific conditions are the case, then why are they precedingly the case when they ae EXACTLY what shall be required later on? Chance would supposedly allow these conditions, but the specifics are remarkable, and demand thought.For example; If you have the sun as a light for the day, and you need a light for the night, you can't have a "moon" satellite as a heat/energy source, as it would cook the inhabitants of the planet. Thus you make the moon to reflect the sun's light, and guess what? It just so happens that heat radiation requires a vacuum, and space just happens to be that vaccum.Do not these things require thought?I have a specific question;What is more likely; that chance provides these things, or thought? Which is the more likely scenario?(Although my argument is a proper one; it is not science, it is philosophy and can be placed in F+B I suppose)This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 11-18-2005 02:38 PM

Maybe Message 1

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I would suggest not. My actual argument, required thought, and has nothing to do with the God of the bible, or evolution, or I.D. It is in regards, in the very least, to a pantheistic "God".Infact, I would be victim of many assumptions over there, when infact I am only dealing with mind.This is a very specific logical argument that hasn't been done before Imho, but you're the boss..This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 11-18-2005 02:42 PM

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"All judgements come from ignorance, the well spring of assumptions, accepted as facts" -- The wiz,

Mike,
Would you like to debate this one on one with nwr as a great debate topic?

That would be great. No pun intended.It will perhaps, be the most polite and none-egotistical, logical debate in the history of mankind.

So how would you feel about a Great Debate discussion between you and nwr?

Althought it puts fear in my heart at the mere mention of that logical-god of intellectucal irrefutable brilliance, I shall buy a small sword and shield for the fight. This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 11-18-2005 02:53 PM

Very good Mike. I'll move the OP to GD and add a comment. I hope it's a productive discussion.

Thanks Orang. Back for it as soon as poss.