no action on racist/sexist jokes thread

Talk about unfunny, dehumanizing, insensitive "jokes"

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No you may not. On the other hand, I'm sure you must be outraged by the character assassiination of Joseph Goebbels, the well known jokester.

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That you equate the jokes and those who tell them on an internet forum with the perpetrators of the holocaust suggest that in fact you are the one who has an extremely skewed view of morality and place a pathetically low value on the lives of other people. You have just exhibited pure hypocricy with your latest post....try coming to Germany sometime and actually seeing the places where the holocaust took place and the memorials to the millions who were murdered before you make callous jokes about the "insensitivity" of other poeple.

I took an advanced class and did well... specifically with regard to porn and sexual (as in the inout inout sexual) issues... and got a great grade!But anyway, I would suggest you get a basic course on reading. I have not mentioned feminism once in this thread at all, much less feminist arguments.

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

But fortunately, Mamathus, since I am insulting a PERSON, and not a TYPE or GROUP, I have exhibited no hypocricy at all. My objection is to propagandist dehumanisation, not merely rudeness.Stuff your arrogance where sun don't shine.And incidentally, I just checked out born2 Preach's webiste, and his rant about how white folk are being repressed, repressed I tell you by the hordes of politically correct nincompoops, and so now I am very confident indeed that he is a racist and possessed of just the same conpiracy-theory martyr complex that was running around during the Holocaust.

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I took an advanced class and did well... specifically with regard to porn and sexual (as in the inout inout sexual) issues... and got a great grade!

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Ahuh. So can you cite some feminist works and authors you have read? At the moment I don;t believe you have read ahy, would you care to correct my misaprehension?

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But anyway, I would suggest you get a basic course on reading. I have not mentioned feminism once in this thread at all, much less feminist arguments.

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No indeed. And your arguments sound like sopmeone whose never so much as opened the cover of a book on feminist theory, becuase so many of your initial positions are ones they ahve deal with directly. Thats why I am confused as to why you fcalim familiarity with feminist theory. Can you expand please?

Thanks for this joke, I had a great laugh imagining how many different ways I could lampoon this entirely illogical request.But as a serious answer... I have already named some authors and works in other threads. Whether I can name more wouldn't prove anything, especially whether I took a class and got a good grade.I could just as easily produce the list as your requested, perhaps an impressive one at that, and have you turn around to say (very rightly) that I could have gotten that list off the internet so you still don't believe me.Thus there is NO POINT to your request. Hahaha... Maybe "they" have dealt "directly" with my "initial positions", but that hardly means "they" were correct. If "they" had been, I would probably not be holding the position I have.Feminism, and feminist theory, is broader than a vague "they" (as we have already discussed in another thread) so what you said means nothing by itself. And as it stands, feminists of all stripes are not some undisputed and final authority on sexism issues.Perhaps instead of alleging that arguments which you have not defined fully counter positions that I have taken (which you have equally left undefined), you could just counter my positions yourself?Maybe YOU can expand by telling me what the hell you are talking about?

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

I say move out of "fields of innocence", it sounds like a cesspool. And it certainly doesn't sound like a "liberated" society. As it is, it does not reflect any reality I know.it's a song reference, genius, and has nothing to do with anything.

My statement was a joke, genius.

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

well it wasn't a very funny one and rather sounded personal.

Sounded personal? How? And you mean something more personal than telling me I've been raised to prey on women?

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

Hey holmes,Thanks for replying to comments regarding my posts, I agree with what you've said.To add to your comments, I didn't report my assault. The two other males I've met that have admitted being victims of assault (only after I had told them of my assault), hadn't reported it either.From the outside this discussion has been interesting, reminding me of discussions with creos arguing strictly from faith. But here the faith is in "all women are victims, and all men powerful," as opposed to say, "the Earth is 6000 years old."No amount of evidence or logic can argue against (close-minded) faith.It is more upsetting to me on this issue, however, because women who maintain this "faith" tend to live their lives as victims, even though they don't have to do so...

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But fortunately, Mamathus, since I am insulting a PERSON, and not a TYPE or GROUP, I have exhibited no hypocricy at all. My objection is to propagandist dehumanisation, not merely rudeness.

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Unfortunately for you, you are an extreme hypocrite. On the one hand, anyone who tells a joke you disapprove of is a genocidal maniac and bigot but then you use a reference to the murder of millions of innocent people and one of its perpetrators as a joke to insult another person. That you see yourself as above the others after exhibiting this behavior shows that the only one with overbearing arrogance and lack of logical consistency is you.As for born2preach's website, I don't give a rats ass. I am not him. I actually did not contribute any jokes to the threads in question. But hypocrites like you are not only annoying but dangerous. Anyone who can equate the telling of jokes with genocide has no grasp of either. Its like the German animal rights activists who use posters of the mistreatment of animals juxtaposed with old photos of jews in concentration camps...they equate the life of an animal with that of a human. It seems you adhere to an equally low moral standard.This message has been edited by Mammuthus, 08-05-2004 05:33 AM

What I hadn't mentioned... and it would be interesting to hear these stats from your exeriences as well... was whether these people "should have" been able to handle their attacker, according to schraf's rules.One guy I know that had it happen to him was a REALLY TOUGH guy. Yet he was still able to be overpowered. While I was relatively less "tough" looking than my attacker, he still would have been in a class I "should have" been able to take care of. Indeed the one successful mugging attempt on me was definitely by someone I could have been able to take care of if he hadn't gotten a jump on me.Oh yeah, and in all cases of failure, when I told people, I got the blame for failing. This despite the fact that I had proven myself in other courageous acts and against greater starting odds in other situations. Men get NO sympathy for failure.Thus this "luxury" schraf thinks men live in... from my experience, even really tough guys... is completely illusory. Same for me for more than one reason.1) I don't like anyone having to suffer needlessly anyway.2) Having been a "victim" I know what it is like and so have very little patience with people torturing themselves off an experience I have been through... talking about how it must have felt and how I MUST keep feeling to support their pet causes. These people do so much more damage than the actual incident by dragging it on for no reason. I loved what the girl who Polanski raped said about the nature of rape and the people living off her pain... THEY are the ones that have tortured her worse than the incident. They turned a small incident she could have forgotten into a lifelong tragedy.3) I find tough girls really hot. They are challenging and competitive and move women forward. And it irks me when I see a usually feisty, energetic girl like schraf suddenly reveal a spine of jello, and use the specific victimization of others to not only oppress herself but validate the oppression (through needless fear) of others.In comparison to the tough girls, they look like elephants still afraid to move from a hitching post, even though they are no longer in chains, and yelling to the rest making a break for freedom that they should come back.Brrrrrrrrr.

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

LOL

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Thus there is NO POINT to your request.

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Then my impression that you don;t know what you are talking about will persist. Up to you.

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Hahaha... Maybe "they" have dealt "directly" with my "initial positions", but that hardly means "they" were correct. If "they" had been, I would probably not be holding the position I have.

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Thats quite true. But your argument against these positions seems to take no account of the existing debate; that was abundantly apparent in the porn thread.

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Feminism, and feminist theory, is broader than a vague "they" (as we have already discussed in another thread) so what you said means nothing by itself. And as it stands, feminists of all stripes are not some undisputed and final authority on sexism issues.

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Umm, well remmebr their central allegation is that there is a systematic bias against women; this is very much the idea that feminists introduced to our social dialogue. As above, much of your argument seems premised on the asusmption that this remains to be demonstrated, and yet I've not seen you attempt a debunking of feminist theorists. Thats why your position is so confused; you talk from an arrogated spoition of authority but don't appear to be familiar with the first principles of the debate. You also totally elide the feminist position on male gender role specifications too.

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Perhaps instead of alleging that arguments which you have not defined fully counter positions that I have taken (which you have equally left undefined), you could just counter my positions yourself?

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No, thats precisely the problem: I have neither the time nor the ability to reproduce for your the entire argument carried out over several hundred pages in, say, The Female Eunuch. It would be much better if you could highlioght your points of disagreement with reference to specific arguments so I can uncerstand where you and a given writer differ.

On the one hand, anyone who tells a joke you disapprove of is a genocidal maniac and bigot but then you use a reference to the murder of millions of innocent people and one of its perpetrators as a joke to insult another person.[/quote]It was not a joke, it was a simile.

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As for born2preach's website, I don't give a rats ass.

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No, indeed you don't. The company of open racists appears not to bother you at all.

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Anyone who can equate the telling of jokes with genocide has no grasp of either.

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Anybody who says that is frankly ignorant of almost the entirety of anthropology and sociology. Ritual dehumanisation of the other in preperation for violence is one of the earliest uses of public symbolism, as you can see on the plate of the Scorpion King applying the mace to an unfortunate.

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It seems you adhere to an equally low moral standard.

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YOU are the one defending racists, Mammathus. Don't give me this moralistic garbage.