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Author Topic:   A thought on Intelligence behind Design
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 119 of 261 (44253)
06-26-2003 12:30 AM
Reply to: Message 118 by Warren
06-25-2003 10:37 PM


When I refer to a machine I have in mind Behe's definition of an irreducibly complex system consisting of many well-matched parts.
If you're referring to "molecular machines", I don't see how the molecules in the flagellum could be any better "matched" than any other chemical interaction.
Honestly I see this as just equivocation on the term "machine". Machines are traditionally referred to as artifacts created by humans to serve some specific utility. Since the flagellum wasn't designed by humans or any other entity we know of (if it was designed at all), how can it be labeled a "machine"?
Are machines the only things in your view that can do anything?
I can't prove molecular machines were designed. ...And evolution is an expression of this technology, not some side-effect.
Again, this just appears to be equivocation on the word "machine".

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 Message 118 by Warren, posted 06-25-2003 10:37 PM Warren has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 167 of 261 (46587)
07-20-2003 5:34 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by Warren
07-20-2003 4:28 PM


Re: Design, hold the Intelligent
Components which are well designed for their function.
As an ID critic, I guess I would have to ask: How well is "well designed"? If I can "intelligently" come up with a better solution, is it still "well designed"?
Evolution predicts components that are "good enough"; how would we distinguished between "good enough" and "well designed"?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by Warren, posted 07-20-2003 4:28 PM Warren has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 170 of 261 (46591)
07-20-2003 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by Warren
07-20-2003 4:28 PM


Re: Design, hold the Intelligent
They want to see "Made by God" written in the cell.
I don't understand why you find this an unreasonable request. When intelligent people design things, they very often sign the item, or label it in some recognizable way to say "hey, I made this!"
The signature of the designer is often a feature of a designed thing. Why is it unreasonable to expect this in a cell, if the cell was designed?

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 233 of 261 (48821)
08-05-2003 5:43 PM
Reply to: Message 232 by Warren
08-05-2003 5:38 PM


Re: Intelligent Design
Heck you can't even tell me what would cause you to merely suspect ID was behind some aspect of biotic reality.
Can I ask you: how long will you investigate ID without result before you conclude that your suspicion was in error?
After all, at the end of the day, it's not about suspicions - it's about evidence.

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 Message 232 by Warren, posted 08-05-2003 5:38 PM Warren has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 236 of 261 (48824)
08-05-2003 6:13 PM
Reply to: Message 235 by Warren
08-05-2003 5:58 PM


Why don't you give me an example of what you would consider evidence for ID.
Haven't we been over this?
I'd accept observed intelligent design of organisms as evidence for ID. That is, I'd have to see an intelligent designer in the process of designing life. Barring that I'd need to see a designer or designers capable of designing life as we see it. Barring that I'd accept a maker's mark as evidence.
Why don't you tell me what, short of actual evidence for the existence of a designer capable of making life, prompts you to suspect the presence of a designer?

This message is a reply to:
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